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To: Tell It Right

Ambrose 1:23 doesn’t quite say what you infer.
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/34021.htm “For if we say that the Holy Spirit is included among all things, certainly when we read that the Spirit searches the deep things of God, 1 Corinthians 2:10 we deny that God the Father is over all. For since the Spirit is of God, and is the Spirit of His mouth, how can we say that the Holy Spirit is included among all things, seeing that God, Whose is the Spirit, is over all, possessing certainly fullness of perfection and perfect power.”

Athanasius’ writing in De Synodis do not disagree with Catholic teaching

Note that all of them point out the Bible to validate teaching, not “sola” scriptura


425 posted on 09/14/2023 6:29:35 AM PDT by Cronos (I identify as an ambulance, my pronounces are wee/woo)
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To: Cronos
Maybe I'm having trouble following you.

You said "Ambrose 1:23 doesn’t quite say what you infer" (In other words, you disagree with my context of Ambrose 1:23's: “How can we use those things which we do not find in the Holy Scriptures?”). Yet you quote Ambrose's quote of 1st Corinthians 2:10 to make his point (which seems like a use of a sola scriptura).

But then I thought maybe you were pointing out Ambrose's use of God's Holy Spirit and the wisdom He brings as a way to say we don't need the Bible alone, but God's Spirit too. Does that sound right?

If so, I point you out to the broader context of the 1st Corinthians 2 that you quote Ambrose quoting. I suggest you read the entire chapter and realize that Paul was basically making a case for his apostleship (1st Cor 1:1). He was very humble about himself (verses 1-4) so that the validity of what he's writing can be known to be based on God power (verse 5).

So what to make of the plural pronouns "we" and "us" in 1st Cor 2:10 and surrounding verses?

1) Does that mean the wisdom from the Holy Spirit applies to all believers? Perhaps, though if so then you and I probably agree that it's wisdom for our personal lives and spheres of influence, not enough for you and I to be deciding on new traditions as truth.

2) Do the plural pronouns for getting the wisdom from the Holy Spirit suggest a more Catholic interpretation? In other words, not everybody getting this kind of wisdom, but it's a greater wisdom that is given to only a select few, but those few extend past the apostles to include perhaps to bring truth outside the Bible from the early church fathers, the popes, apostolic succession?

3) Or do the "we" and "us" mean Paul and the other apostles only, perhaps their workers helping them carry the message of the apostles? In other words, wisdom of the Bible?

Well, let's see what the Bible says. Bonus points if it's in the same letter (Bible "book"). Is there a "we" the letter is from? Yes! Paul and Sothsenes (1 Cor 1:1). Maybe or maybe not that's the same Sothsenes from Acts 18 who was a synagogue leader who was persecuted by the mob (Acts 18:17) probably for becoming a Christian like some of the other synagogue leaders and other Corinthians did (Acts 18:8). Whoever this Sothenes is in the first verse of 1 Corinthians, he is clearly working as an agent of the apostle Paul.

Thus, your Ambrose quote of the Bible quote is yet more evidence of # 3 which is.... wait for it .... sola scriptura.

430 posted on 09/14/2023 7:23:05 AM PDT by Tell It Right (1st Thessalonians 5:21 -- Put everything to the test, hold fast to that which is true.)
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