Izzat why 'Mary' has to appear to get you guys to do so much extra stuff that we Prots are free from?
Posted on 07/08/2023 4:16:50 AM PDT by vespa300
Jesus rose from the dead "on the first day of the week."104 Because it is the "first day," the day of Christ's Resurrection recalls the first creation. Because it is the "eighth day" following the sabbath,105 it symbolizes the new creation ushered in by Christ's Resurrection. For Christians it has become the first of all days, the first of all feasts, the Lord's Day (he kuriake hemera, dies dominica) Sunday:
We all gather on the day of the sun, for it is the first day [after the Jewish sabbath, but also the first day] when God, separating matter from darkness, made the world; and on this same day Jesus Christ our Savior rose from the dead.106
Sunday - fulfillment of the sabbath
(Excerpt) Read more at vatican.va ...
Can't the same be asked of Rome?
After all; she 'gave' me...
1 John 2:7-8, 26-297 Beloved, I am writing you no new commandment, but an old commandment that you had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word that you have heard. 8 At the same time, it is a new commandment that I am writing to you, which is true in him and in you, because[a] the darkness is passing away and the true light is already shining.26 I write these things to you about those who are trying to deceive you. 27 But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie—just as it has taught you, abide in him.
28 And now, little children, abide in him, so that when he appears we may have confidence and not shrink from him in shame at his coming. 29 If you know that he is righteous, you may be sure that everyone who practices righteousness has been born of him.
Heck; even your claimed 'first pope' has WRITTEN:
2 Peter 1:3 nivHis divine power has given us everything we need
for a godly life through our knowledge of him
who called us by his own glory and goodness.
She has managed to hang on thru various schisms, splits and counter-reformations. I hardly think good ol' Elsie is gonna make much of a dent in her.
That is when any good father will turn off the data plan and send the kid to his room.
Sounds like you wish Rome still had the power to try to FORCE obedience to her additions.
Izzat why 'Mary' has to appear to get you guys to do so much extra stuff that we Prots are free from?
In the meantime, 'Mary' says:
The 15 promises(Given to St. Dominic and Blessed Alan de la Roche)
1 Whoever shall faithfully serve me by the recitation of the Rosary, shall receive powerful graces. 2. I promise my special protection and the greatest graces to all those who shall recite the Rosary. 3. The Rosary shall be a powerful armor against hell, it will destroy vice, decrease sin, and defeat heresies 4. It will cause virtue and good works to flourish; it will obtain for souls the abundant mercy of God; it will withdraw the hearts of people from the love of the world and its vanities, and will lift them to the desire of eternal things. Oh, that souls would sanctify themselves by this means. 5. The soul which recommends itself to me by the recitation of the Rosary, shall not perish. 6. Whoever shall recite the Rosary devoutly, applying Himself to the consideration of its Sacred Mysteries shall never be conquered by misfortune. God will not chastise Him in His justice, he shall not perish by an unprovided death; if he be just, he shall remain in the grace of God, and become worthy of eternal life. 7. Whoever shall have a true devotion for the Rosary shall not die without the Sacraments of the Church. 8. Those who are faithful to recite the Rosary shall have during their life and at their death the light of God and the plentitude of His graces; at the moment of death they shall participate in the merits of the Saints in Paradise. 9. I shall deliver from purgatory those who have been devoted to the Rosary. 10. The faithful children of the Rosary shall merit a high degree of glory in Heaven. 11. You shall obtain all you ask of me by the recitation of the Rosary. 12. All those who propagate the Holy Rosary shall be aided by me in their necessities. 13. I have obtained from my Divine Son that all the advocates of the Rosary shall have for intercessors the entire celestial court during their life and at the hour of death 14. All who recite the Rosary are my children, and brothers and sisters of my only Son, Jesus Christ. 15. Devotion of my Rosary is a great sign of predestination.
"The Most Holy Virgin in these last times in which we live has given a new efficacy to the recitation of the Rosary to such an extent that there is no problem,
no matter how difficult it is, wheter temporal or above all spiritual, in the personal life of each one of us, of our families...that cannot be solved by the Rosary.
There is no problem, I tell you, no matter how difficult it is, that we cannot resolve by the prayer of the Holy Rosary."
Sister Lucia dos Santos
So you refer to even MORE Scripture trying to convince me it is TRADITION?
HMMMmmm...
You givin' up?
If there is pre-existence, then it must be the living that sleep in the dust.
Maybe this is The Phantom Zone
——>Wonder all you want - just don’t make up stuff with flimsy evidence.
Maybe you should figure out ALL the evidence, THEN make your conclusions, like John Gill, below. Did John Gill have flimsy evidence? Why did you two come to different conclusions? Do you know something he didn’t? If so, care to share?
Gill’s Exposition of the Whole Bible
2 Thess 2:3
...and that man of sin be revealed:
Who was now hid, though secretly working; by whom is meant not only any particular person or individual; not the devil, for though he is the wicked one, a damned spirit, an opposer, an adversary of God and Christ, and his people, and who has affected deity, and sought to be worshipped, and even by Christ himself; yet the man of sin is here distinguished from Satan, 2 Timothy 2:9 nor is any particular emperor of Rome intended, as Caius Caligula, or Nero, for though these were monsters of iniquity, and set up themselves as gods, yet they sat not in the temple of God; nor is Simon Magus designed, who was a very wicked man, a sorcerer, and who gave out himself to be some great one, and was called the great power of God, before big profession of faith in Christ; and afterwards affirmed that he was God, the Father in Samaria, the Son in Judea, and the Spirit in the rest of the nations of the world; and, because of his signs and lying wonders, had a statue erected by the Roman emperor with this inscription, “to Simon the holy god”; but then this wicked man was now already revealed: nor is this to be understood of a certain Jew, that is to be begotten by the devil on a virgin of the tribe of Dan, and who is to reign three years and a half, and then to be destroyed by Christ, which is a fable of the Papists; but a succession of men is here meant, as a king is used sometimes for an order and succession of kings, Deuteronomy 17:18 and an high priest for that whole order, from Aaron’s time to the dissolution of it, Hebrews 9:7 so here it intends the whole hierarchy of Rome, monks, friars, priests, bishops, archbishops, cardinals, and especially popes, who may well be called “the man of sin”, because notoriously sinful; not only sinners, but sin itself, a sink of sin, monsters of iniquity, spiritual wickednesses in high places: it is not easy to reckon up their impieties, their adulteries, incest, sodomy, rapine, murder, avarice, simony, perjury, lying, necromancy, familiarity with the devil, idolatry, witchcraft, and what not? and not only have they been guilty of the most notorious crimes themselves, but have been the patrons and encouragers of others in sin; by dispensing with the laws of God and man, by making sins to be venial, by granting indulgences and pardon for the worst of crimes, by licensing brothel houses, and countenancing all manner of wickedness.
And so, like Satan, you say, “I will NOT serve!”
To whom was Satan referring?
The Father? Not likely because everyone knows He is the Master.
The Son? Not likely because everyone knows He is One with the Father.
Mary, the Mother of God, is to whom all are expected to serve. She is fully human but filled with so much grace that she did not receive Original Sin nor any sin thereafter. God cannot look upon sin, but in Mary, God can see His Perfect, Undefiled Creation, and He promotes this Perfection above all others.
Satan cannot bear the thought of having to serve one of these lowly human life forms. Angels and Archangels have so much more power than us that it is insulting to them when we think we become angels. They serve us at God’s command.
Are you jealous that God gave so much grace to Mary, or do you believe Jesus is not the Perfect Son?
I know I said I would not engage with those that are stubbornly blind so I will try only once more:
To a Sadducee, 2 Maccabees 7 is not sacred scripture. It would be considered the same as you would consider the writings of Thomas Aquinas or Catherine of Sienna. This is why Jesus could not use it in His argument.
It would be considered tradition. Possibly helpful, possibly laughable, but not sacred scripture.
The Word of God indeed gives you all that you need to obtain everlasting life, but it does not give you the power to control your vices. It does not keep you from sin and it does not control your choices. Pride always was and always will be the worst possible sin. All others stem from pride.
——>Mary, the Mother of God, is to whom all are expected to serve. She is fully human but filled with so much grace that she did not receive Original Sin nor any sin thereafter. God cannot look upon sin, but in Mary, God can see His Perfect, Undefiled Creation, and He promotes this Perfection above all others.
Say what???
Not engaging with those that are stubbornly blind. I was merely pointing to how tradition came from scripture.
Since you seem to have read something, then I assume you have read the NT.
“ Say what???”
Yeah. I think that was likely Satan’s initial reaction, too.
——>Yeah. I think that was likely Satan’s initial reaction, too.
You mean when one of Satan’s angels told him humans had come up with such a ridiculous statement, and how easily some of them are fooled? (I’m being kind by not saying the idea came right from Satan...oops)
More pitiful delusion and irrational argumentation. Actually, it is you who is a pebble in a unholy amalgamation that may still count me and the like as a RC, while manifestly considering even proabortion, prohomosexual public figures as members in life and in death (showing the Vatican's understanding of canon law), while marginalizing conservative Catholics who protest the modern liberal drift of Rome, as the majority of vocal FR RCs here can tell you.
As another poster wryly summed it,
The last time the church imposed its judgment in an authoritative manner on "areas of legitimate disagreement," the conservative Catholics became the Sedevacantists and the Society of St. Pius X, the moderate Catholics became the conservatives, the liberal Catholics became the moderates, and the folks who were excommunicated, silenced, refused Catholic burial, etc. became the liberals. The event that brought this shift was Vatican II; conservatives then couldn't handle having to actually obey the church on matters they were uncomfortable with, so they left. ” - Nathan, https://christopherblosser.wordpress.com/2005/05/16/fr-michael-orsi-on-different-levels-of-catholic-teaching (original http://www.ratzingerfanclub.com/blog/2005/05/fr-michael-orsi-on-different-levels-of.html)
Thus we have, Is Catholicism about to break into three?
Archbishop Viganò: We Are Witnessing Creation of a ‘New Church ’
The SSPX's Relationship with Francis: Is it Traditional? post #6
Is the Catholic Church in De Facto Schism?
The Impossibility of Judging or Deposing a True Pope...If Francis is a true Pope …
And yet, while TradCaths longs for a pre V2 RC, from that era comes exhortations to obey RC leadership as if it were God:
'the one duty of the multitude is to allow themselves to be led, and, like a docile flock, to follow the Pastors," "to suffer themselves to be guided and led in all things that touch upon faith or morals by the Holy Church of God through its Supreme Pastor the Roman Pontiff," "of submitting with docility to their judgment," with "no discussions regarding what he orders or demands, or up to what point obedience must go, and in what things he is to be obeyed... not only in person, but with letters and other public documents ;" and 'not limit the field in which he might and must exercise his authority, " for "obedience must not limit itself to matters which touch the faith: its sphere is much more vast: it extends to all matters which the episcopal power embraces," and not set up "some kind of opposition between one Pontiff and another. Those who, faced with two differing directives, reject the present one to hold to the past, are not giving proof of obedience to the authority which has the right and duty to guide them," "Nor must it be thought that what is expounded in Encyclical Letters does not of itself demand consent." (Sources http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3578348/posts?page=14#14)By comparison, the Protestant community is nothing.
Even if this was true which it is not (at est. 800 million to 1 billion adherents worldwide), what kind of argument is that? Do higher numbers translate to veracity? "To him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion." (Ecclesiastes 9:4) and only a relative "remnant shall be saved," (Romans 9:27) while "Broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat.' (Matthew 7:13)
And who here is arguing for whatever is classed as Protestant? Thus your desperate attempt to present some sort of argument is simply an irrational one.
The Protestant community is like the finger telling the body, “I don’t need you(Roman Church) because I have the head(Jesus Christ).” Funny thing though: I have never seen a finger growing from a head
Which means that once again you ignore the fallacy of that argument, and effectively invalidate the NT church, which began church actually began in dissent from those who sat in the seat of Moses over Israel, to whom conditional obedience was enjoined, (Mt. 23:2; cf. Dt. 17:8-13) which judgments included which men and writings were of God and which were not, (Mk. 11:27-33) as the historical magisterial head over Israel which was the historical instrument and steward of Scripture, "because that unto them were committed the oracles of God," (Rm. 3:2) to whom pertaineth" the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises" (Rm. 9:4) of Divine guidance, presence and perpetuation as they believed, (Gn. 12:2,3; 17:4,7,8; Ex. 19:5; Lv. 10:11; Dt. 4:31; 17:8-13; Ps, 11:4,9; Is. 41:10, Ps. 89:33,34; Jer. 7:23)
And instead they followed an itinerant Preacher whom the magisterium rejected, and whom the Messiah reproved them Scripture as being supreme, (Mk. 7:2-16) and established His Truth claims upon scriptural substantiation in word and in power, as did the early church as it began upon this basis. (Mt. 22:23-45; Lk. 24:27,44; Jn. 5:36,39; Acts 2:14-35; 4:33; 5:12; 15:6-21;17:2,11; 18:28; 28:23; Rm. 15:19; 2Cor. 12:12, etc.)
Do not all belong to Christ? Why do you disparage your brother?
Certainly not all belong to Christ, and thus I am not disparaging Catholic here as if he was my brother, though correcting brethren for errors is actually commanded. (Leviticus 19:17)
Thus once again, the attempted arguments by a RC are actually arguments against becoming a RC. But if you want to keep it up, instead of repenting of your errors and finding salvation, then you can further impugn your erroneous. faith
What's more to share?
I listed the ONLY places in the bible where the WORD antichrist was used.
Why are so many going nuts here?
I have no idea what Satan will or will not do (evidently you may know him a bit better than I do) but I will admit to NOT SERVING - the apparition that claimed to be Mary with it's wonderful promises to the gullible!
AHHHhhh...
The great expectations of Rome.
Sorry; but it ain't gonna happen here!
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