Posted on 06/14/2023 10:48:04 AM PDT by vespa300
Most Christians assume that Sunday is the biblically approved day of worship. The Roman catholic church protests that it transferred Christian worship from the biblical Sabbath (Saturday) to Sunday, and that to try to argue that the change was made in the Bible is both dishonest and a denial of Catholic authority. If Protestantism wants to base its teachings only on the Bible, it should worship on Saturday.
(Excerpt) Read more at romeschallenge.com ...
——>Funny thing is, Jesus said such a person would be in the Kingdom of Heaven.
Nope. The verse says that they would be CALLED least in the kingdom of heaven. Better look at verse 20.
Matthew 5:19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
“But, I do care about you and your friends potentially ending the salvation of all who read your misrepresentation of scripture.”
No, you don’t. You haven’t bothered to answer any of my many Biblical examples. You simply repeat your poorly-sourced arguments that I have proven conclusively to be wrong.
“Obedience to God matters.”
Good. Start keeping the Sabbath the way Hebrews 4:10 commands then. Learn what the Sabbath means.
“The verse says that they would be CALLED least in the kingdom of heaven. Better look at verse 20.”
Matthew 5:19-20 NKJV
Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.
You stumble at the stumbling stone of Jesus just like the Sabbath practitioners who murdered Him. They were fixated on the fleshly applications and missed the Law written on the heart.
Christ was contrasting the least and greatest who are in the kingdom of Heaven. The scribes and Pharisees kept the Law externally but not in their hearts. These did not make it in.
The phrase you are contradicting is used elsewhere.
Matthew 11:11 NKJV
Assuredly, I say to you, among those born of women there has not risen one greater than John the Baptist; but he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
No one in the kingdom of Heaven is going to be looking down into the pits of Hell and pointing out someone is the “least”. That’s a huge misunderstanding of the Matthew 5 passage. Christ came to fulfill the Law and Prophets, not destroy them.
You cannot do and teach the Sabbath because you don’t know what the Sabbath means. You have to learn what it means in order to do and teach it.
——>No, you don’t. You haven’t bothered to answer any of my many Biblical examples.
I’ve responded with my own many biblical examples, to show your errors.
——You cannot do and teach the Sabbath because you don’t know what the Sabbath means. You have to learn what it means in order to do and teach it.
If you do not keep the 7th-day-Sabbath holy, you have BROKEN the commandment.
——>Good. Start keeping the Sabbath the way Hebrews 4:10 commands then. Learn what the Sabbath means.
You have no idea what you are talking about. Samuel Bacchiocchi makes that clear.
The Sabbath remains on Saturday - that’s why many languages keep the word “sabbath” or variants for “Saturday”
Like
French - Samedi From Old French samedi, from Vulgar Latin *sambati diēs, from Latin Sabbati diēs < diēs Sabbati (“day of the Sabbath”).
Polish - Sobota - inherited from Proto-Slavic *sǫbota, *sobota, from Medieval Latin sabbatum (or from Vulgar Latin *sambatum), from Ancient Greek σάββᾱτον (sábbāton), from Hebrew שַׁבָּת (šabbāṯ).
Italian - Sabato
Greek - Σάββατο (Sávato)
English is a poor substitute for many languages and leads to errors as we see among many western groups.
Similarly the word “Sunday” - in
Greek - Κυριακή (Kiriakí) - the Lord’s Day
Latin - Dominica - the Lord’s Day
Italian - Domenica
French - Dimanche
etc.
Sabbath remains the last day of the week. As Christians we celebrate the risen Lord on the Lord’s Day - the first day of the week. Jesus brought in a new era and we keep that day Holy for the Lord
>>>Sabbath remains the last day of the week. As Christians we celebrate the risen Lord on the Lord’s Day - the first day of the week. Jesus brought in a new era and we keep that day Holy for the Lord>>>
Yes, it’s a great tradition. Problem is there’s no text for Sunday being holy, a day of worship, or a change in the Sabbath that God himself declared to be a holy day. In Genesis, we read God himself hallowed and sanctified the 7th day. Jesus said the Sabbath was “Made.” Sorry but with all due respect, you can unmake what Jesus made.
Sunday keeping was brought into the church by Rome. In fact, she is the great apostate and Daniel’s prophecy describes her. Daniel even prophecied she would seek to change “times and law”....that’s the Sabbath to Sunday.....Daniel 7:25.
I don’t follow Rome. I follow the Bible. Thank you
Firstly - my post #727 refuted the statement that “sabbath was changed to Sunday” — that is false.
Do you agree that it was not changed by the Church?
Actually there is text for Domenica/The Lord's day being holy
Jesus rose from the dead "on the first day of the week."
Mt 28:1; After the sabbath, as the first day of the week was dawning,[b] Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb. 2 [c]And behold, there was a great earthquake; for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven, approached, rolled back the stone, and sat upon it.Mk 16:2; Very early when the sun had risen, on the first day of the week, they came to the tomb.
Lk 24:1;The Resurrection of Jesus. 1 But at daybreak on the first day of the week they took the spices they had prepared and went to the tomb.
Jn 20:1 ] 1 On the first day of the week, Mary of Magdala came to the tomb early in the morning, while it was still dark,[c] and saw the stone removed from the tomb.
the day of Christ's Resurrection recalls the first creation. Because it is the "eighth day" following the sabbath,
it symbolizes the new creation ushered in by Christ's Resurrection. For Christians it has become the first of all days, the first of all feasts, the Lord's Day (he kuriake hemera, dies dominica)
================
Note that the Ecclesiastical review of 1914, etc are wrong to state that there is no Biblical reason
Let's repeat - Sabbath remains on Saturday, but Christians observe the Lord's Day which is the day we worship the risen Lord
John 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
Before any church was formed or birthed, Jesus established worship on the first day for the new covenant made by His blood, and upon His obedience, not ours.
First day of the week confirmed by Jesus, not man, nor church.
1 Corinthians 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
The concept of worship on the first day of the week originated with Jesus arising from the dead on the first day of the week and therefore this day was chosen by God, and men followed.
Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
Here we see the great apostle Paul did not deviate but continued worship and meeting on the first day of the week.
Luther criticized the Sabbatarian Carlstadt and certain Anabaptists for their Judiazing of Sunday: “that if Sunday were anywhere made holy merely for the day’s sake or its observance set on a Jewish foundation, ‘then I order you to walk on it, to ride on it, to dance on it, to feast on it, to do anything that shall remove this encroachment on Christian Liberty’ “ (p.17).
Calvin “regarded the external observance of the Sabbath rest as a Jewish ceremonial ordinance and no longer binding on Christians.” He said of Sabbatarians that they “surpass the Jews three times over in a crass and carnal Sabbatarian superstition” (p.19).
For very practical reasons, Calvin wished to retain a stated rest day for rest and worship. “When Spirituals taunted Protestant as Judaizers for still keeping Sunday, Calvin replied that they celebrated it not scrupulously but ‘as a remedy needed to keep order in the church.’ “ Solberg notes also that “in Calvin’s Geneva, citizens were free to amuse themselves after Sunday worship, and they did so with military drill and bowling. Calvin himself bowled on Sunday and was buried on a Lord’s Day afternoon” (p. 19).
Taken from REDEEM THE TIME - THE PURITAN SABBATH IN EARLY AMERICA by Winton Solberg
Finally - you say “i don’t follow Rome, I follow the Bible”
Where do you think the compilation of the books of the Bible came from?
Why do you not have the Shepherd of Hermas in your Bible, when it was rejected by the Catholic church for being in the collection of books called the Bible?
Catholics, who form the bulk of Christianity even until today, follow the Word of God - Jesus. Jesus’ words are in the Bible, but the Bible does not contain all of it - refer John 21:25 “There are also many other things that Jesus did, but if these were to be described individually, I do not think the whole world would contain the books that would be written.”
As a Catholic I think it also specious to use the worship on Sunday as a “barb” against non-Catholic Western groups.
Why? Because even if a group breaks away from a main group, it keeps the learnings from the former.
if it does not, then it is a completely new “thing”
And you vespa say “As for Michael the archangel, a deep study will show he is Jesus. “one who is like God” and only God is like God. He is not an Angel....he is the leader of the angels. He is not created, he has existed forever. Michael is simply Jesus incarnate in the OT.”
So, do you think Jesus is God?
>>>So, do you think Jesus is God?>>>
Of course. And he was never created. He has always existed. Are you going back to check on my posts? Save you some time. I am a Christian, Protestant, and Seventh day Adventist.....in that order.
Jesus is God, he is Lord, he is everything. And I don’t even keep the Sabbath perfectly, I don’t keep any of the commandments perfectly. But I don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater and I can’t find a single text that says the Ten Commandments have been done away with and or the 4th commandment is no longer a day Jesus made for me. He said he made it for me, to delight in it, a blessed day, a holy day, the best day of the week.
It will be a huge end time issue in fact. The seal of God, in the Sabbath commmandment, we see his name, title, and territory. Lord, God, creator of heaven and earth. That’s a seal. I’ll take the seal of God over the mark of the beast thank u very much. And Rome claims it is the “Mark” of her authority to change God’s law.
As LL Cool Jay said......”I don’t think so.” People who kept Sunday in the past, the whole day, but the wrong day....I believe God honored that. It was the light they had. But God is restoring end time truth because he knows what is coming....and Revelation 12:17 tells me what is coming. Somebody is going to be very very angry with those who keep the “commandments of God.” Just look at this thread...going on 800 responses!......everybody joining in unity, from all denominations.....angry about the Sabbath. Its prophecy fulfilled and very telling of what is to come when the world is imploding and there is nowhere to turn but God. and most will go along with a big church who leads the world.........right into apostasy.
Anti Christ is a spirit of intolerance. Manifest in false worship. Counterfeit. And rome has a very good history of persecuting those who don’t go along. Apostate Protestantism and evangelicals are going to go along.....in fact, they will reach out to her. She doesn’t even need to reach to them.......
Hope this helps.
If you are a Seventh Day Adventist, then you aren’t Christian.
Because
1. you believe that Jesus is the archangel Michael. This despite the book of Daniel making it very clear that Michael is ONE of the many archangels (or Princes of Angels)
2. you keep the works of Ellen G White at the same level as the Bible
3. you as a Seventh Day Adventist deny that believers on death go to heaven. Adventists say that believers go to soul sleep in the grave until Christ’s return. This contradicts Philippians 1:23 , 2 Corinthians 5:8, Hebrews 12:1 , etc. etc.
4. You Adventists believe that Christ took upon His sinless nature our sinful nature. Christ took our nature and it’s deteriorating condition namely you think that Christ acquired a sinful nature. This is false. Christ had a sinless human nature. Christ took our sin punishment, not our sin nature.
Your non-Christian cult came out of the Millerite movement - like the sister non-christian cult, the Jehovah’s witnesses.
Seventh Day Adventism is not Protestant, leave alone Christian
The epistles of Paul and the book of Acts makes it clear that Christians worshipped on the Lord’s Day - the first day of the week.
Jesus made it clear that He fulfilled Sabbath and He fulfilled the Law.
Actually it doesn't - you made that up
The Adventists change God's teachings by holding Jesus as the archangel Michael
Manifest in false worship. -- can't you see that in the myriad cults that arose in the USA in the 19th century? The Seventh Day Adventists, the Mormons, the Jehovah's witnesses, the pre-tribulation rapturists, the Christian "scientists" - all arose in the same 60 odd years in the USA and all are non-Christian cults
13 When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. 14 The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach. 15 Then from his mouth the serpent spewed water like a river, to overtake the woman and sweep her away with the torrent. 16 But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.
The woman is an image of Mary, of Israel and the Church.
The salvation of God's people 0 the Church -- is assured by the aid of YHWH "the two wings of the great eagle"
The flight illustrates teh obedience of the Church to the warning of Jesus in the Olivet Discourse "then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, and let those who are inside the city depart" (Luke 21:21)
The verse 12:17 clearly talks about the persecution of the Church until the last being Diocletian
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