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To: Elsie; fidelis
Nice post, thanks.

That's a long list.

Do Catholics make so much of Mary because they want to lift up the woman's gender? It's kinda their long-held version of "gender equity."

Curious.

fidelis, I ping'd you because Elsie's list runs contrary to your claims HERE. And to be fair, Elsie provides no official source for these claims about Mary.

Also, fidelis - Do you "teach" that Mary was without sin? Do you "teach" that she was born without sin?

Again, I'm curious.

140 posted on 07/29/2022 6:44:14 AM PDT by kinsman redeemer (The real enemy seeks to devour what is good. )
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To: kinsman redeemer

“Do you “teach” that Mary was without sin? Do you “teach” that she was born without sin?”

__________

https://www.walksinrome.com/blog/room-of-the-immaculate-conception-vatican-museums-rome

Following the proclamation of the dogma (Ineffabilis Deus) of the Immaculate Conception by Pius IX (r. 1846-78), which took place in St Peter’s Basilica on December 8th, 1854, the pope decide to immortalise the event with a series of grand frescoes.

The frescoes (1856-65) in the Sala dell’ Immacolata Concezione were executed by Francesco Podesti (1800-95), who had been present at the proclamation.

The fresco of the Proclamation of the Dogma of the Immaculate Conception occupies an entire wall in the room. Pius IX, by his own request, is depicted standing rather than seated. During the ceremony the pope had been obliged to stand up when a ray of sunlight unexpectedly shone in his face. As the day was overcast, the sunbeam was interpreted as heavenly confirmation of the dogma. In the fresco the sunbeam emanates from the cross in the top left corner.

Directly above the pope is the Virgin Mary and the Holy Trinity. Although Mary is in the centre, she is not on the same level as the Father and the Son, but a little lower. She may be the immaculate mother of God, but she is also human.

On the right-hand side of the fresco, Adam opens his arms to Mary, while Eve bows her head in shame. The faces of Eve and Mary are identical, for, according to the teaching of the Fathers of the Church, Mary is the new Eve.

The Immaculate Conception is the belief that the Virgin Mary was conceived free from the stain of original sin.

https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/immaculate-conception-defined-by-pius-ix-8040

Immaculate Conception Defined by Pius IX
Author: Pope John Paul II
IMMACULATE CONCEPTION DEFINED BY PIUS IX

Pope John Paul II

According to this dogmatic definition, it has been revealed by God that Mary was preserved from original sin from the moment of her conception

At the General Audience of Wednesday, 12 June, the Holy Father continued his catechesis on the Immaculate Conception, this time discussing the dogmatic definition of the doctrine by Pope Pius IX. “We declare, pronounce and define that the doctrine which asserts that the Blessed Virgin Mary, from the first moment of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege of almighty God, and in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, Saviour of the human race, was preserved free from every stain of original sin is a doctrine revealed by God and, for this reason, must be firmly and constantly believed by all the faithful”, the Pope said in his Bull Ineffabilis.Here is a translation of the Holy Father’s catechesis, which was the 23rd in the series on the Blessed Virgin and was given in Italian.

1. Down the centuries, the conviction that Mary was preserved from every stain of sin from her conception, so that she is to be called all holy, gradually gained ground in the liturgy and theology. At the start of the 19th century, this development led to a petition drive for a dogmatic definition of the privilege of the Immaculate Conception.

Around the middle of the century, with the intention of accepting this request, Pope Pius IX, after consulting the theologians, questioned the Bishops about the opportuneness and the possibility of such a definition, convoking as it were a “council in writing”. The result was significant: the vast majority of the 604 Bishops gave a positive response to the question.

After such an extensive consultation, which emphasized my venerable Predecessor’s concern to express the Church’s faith in the definition of the dogma, he set about preparing the document with equal care.

Blessed Virgin is free from every stain of sin

The special commission of theologians set up by Pius IX to determine the revealed doctrine assigned the essential role to ecclesial practice. And this criterion influenced the formulation of the dogma, which preferred expressions taken from the Church’s lived experience, from the faith and worship of the Christian people, to scholastic definitions.

Finally in 1854, with the Bull Ineffabilis, Pius IX solemnly proclaimed the dogma of the Immaculate Conception: “... We declare, pronounce and define that the doctrine which asserts that the Blessed Virgin Mary, from the first moment of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege of almighty God, and in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, Saviour of the human race, was preserved free from every stain of original sin is a doctrine revealed by God and, for this reason, must be firmly and constantly believed by all the faithful” (DS 2803).

The Virgin Mother received the singular grace of being immaculately conceived “in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, Saviour of the human race”, that is, of his universal redeeming action.

The text of the dogmatic definition does not expressly declare that Mary was redeemed, but the same Bull Ineffabilis states elsewhere that “she was redeemed in the most sublime way”. This is the extraordinary truth: Christ was the redeemer of his Mother and carried out his redemptive action in her “in the most perfect way” (Fulgens corona, AAS 45 [1953], 581), from the first moment of her existence. The Second Vatican Council proclaimed that the Church “admires and exalts in Mary the most excellent fruit of the Redemption” (Sacrosanctum Concilium,n. 103).

Solemn definition serves the faith of God’s People

4. This solemnly proclaimed doctrine is expressly termed a “doctrine revealed by God”. Pope Pius IX adds that it must be “firmly and constantly believed by all the faithful”. Consequently, whoever does not make this doctrine his own, or maintains an opinion contrary to it, “is shipwrecked in faith” and “separates himself from Catholic unity”.

In proclaiming the truth of this dogma of the Immaculate Conception, my venerable Predecessor was conscious of exercising his power of infallible teaching as the universal Pastor of the Church, which several years later would be solemnly defined at the First Vatican Council. Thus he put his infallible Magisterium into action as a service to the faith of God’s People; and it is significant that he did so by defining Mary’s privilege.

Taken from:
L’Osservatore Romano
Weekly Edition in English
19 June 1996, page 11

L’Osservatore Romano is the newspaper of the Holy See.
The Weekly Edition in English is published for the US by:

The Cathedral Foundation
L’Osservatore Romano English Edition
320 Cathedral St.
Baltimore, MD 21201
Subscriptions: (410) 547-5315
Fax: (410) 332-1069
lormail@catholicreview.org


144 posted on 07/29/2022 7:05:55 AM PDT by one guy in new jersey
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To: kinsman redeemer
Nice post, thanks. That's a long list.

Thank you. It's actually metmom's list. I was only responding to it.

Do Catholics make so much of Mary because they want to lift up the woman's gender? It's kinda their long-held version of "gender equity."

That Catholic's "make so much about Mary" is a matter of perspective. From the Church's view, what it officially teaches about Mary is the fruit of 2000 years of meditation on her role in salvation history as found in the Scriptures and in the lived experience of the Church from it's earliest days. One could conversely ask why Protestants don't say enough about Mary

The Church has held Mary in high regard for her role in salvation history from it's earliest days-- long before anyone was concerned with all of the modern gender equality stuff.

Curious. fidelis, I ping'd you because Elsie's list runs contrary to your claims HERE. And to be fair, Elsie provides no official source for these claims about Mary.

Elsie posted more than one list on that thread so I'm not sure which to respond to. You'd have to point me to her specific remarks that supposedly contradict what I said.

Also, fidelis - Do you "teach" that Mary was without sin? Do you "teach" that she was born without sin?

I'm mostly a Bible teacher so it doesn't often come up in my usual ministry, but if I were a Catholic catechist and that were the topic at hand I would teach it. One reason I would do so is because that it is what the Church teaches. But I wouldn't teach this doctrine (or anything the Church teaches) unless it was based on scriptural, historical, and reasonable evidence.

147 posted on 07/29/2022 7:32:29 AM PDT by fidelis (👈 Under no obligation to respond to rude, ignorant, abusive, bellicose, and obnoxious posts.)
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To: kinsman redeemer
That's a long list.

There's probably more, but my time was running out as I compiled that one.

167 posted on 07/29/2022 12:17:22 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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