Posted on 03/21/2022 8:37:27 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
The recent now-deleted tweet by Andy Stanley, son of famed pastor emeritus Charles Stanley of the First Baptist Church, Atlanta, reads:
“The Christian faith doesn’t rise and fall on the accuracy of 66 ancient documents. It rises and falls on the identity of a single individual: Jesus of Nazareth.”
Stanley’s tweet was taken from a sermon he preached on March 6 at Browns Bridge Church in Cumming, Georgia.
When first reading the tweet on social media, I was saddened and sickened. This kind of statement was all too familiar to me. I had often heard it made by the moderates and liberals who were in control of the Southern Baptist Convention back in the '80s. I had defended the faith against this kind of approach to the Scriptures in the Baptist Associations where I had served — a time when my support for the Bible as divine and totally without error was in the minority and marginalized.
This kind of doctrinal error is what conservatives worked and sacrificed to save the Southern Baptist Convention from and succeeded. Moreover, other denominations that embraced what Stanley was teaching ended up on the trash heap of spiritual impotence or blatant apostasy.
It was, therefore, quite painful for me to hear a prominent preacher with the considerable influence of Stanley, one who has affirmed his own belief in inerrancy, declare something so contrary to that affirmation.
Unfortunately, Andy Stanley’s view of the Bible is not uncommon today in many seminaries and various mainline denominations that were once faithful. It holds if one argues for the highest view of Scripture as the Church did in the past, then one is in danger of a form of idolatry, elevating the Bible above Jesus, and therefore, guilty of the sin of Bible worship. In other words, you can make the Bible even more important than Jesus. You can give the Bible a prominence the Lord himself didn’t give it.
This is a seductive and harmful argument for those who may not know any better. It’s really a departure from the doctrine handed down by the Church, which has always maintained Christ, the Living Word, so identified himself with the Written Word, the Holy Scriptures, that no teacher can diminish the authority of one without also equally diminishing the authority of the other.
No one ever held a higher view of Scripture than Jesus did. In fact, over and again, Jesus encouraged everyone to judge his entire person and work by what the Scriptures said. In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus declared he didn’t come to oppose or supersede the Scriptures, but to fulfill them exactly — completely — to fulfill every “jot and tittle” (Mt. 5:17-20).
Years ago, after leaving the pastorate to become the Christian Action League’s executive director, I joined a church where a man came before the congregation as a pastoral candidate. First, the candidate made a general statement about his doctrinal beliefs and church polity and then fielded questions from the audience.
One statement the candidate made was a red flag for me. He said he believed Southern Baptists had elevated the Bible above Jesus. So, before the entire church, I asked him to please explain what he meant.
To the point of embarrassment, the candidate kept avoiding a direct answer to the question by talking about things that weren’t pertinent. When he finally got around to addressing it, he did so in vague generalities, which essentially amounted to no answer at all.
At last, I sought to pin him down and asked: “Please tell us plainly. Do you believe the Bible is the infallible and inerrant Word of God? Yes or No?” His response was honest, but revealing when he replied, “No, I don’t.”
At this point, the candidate became very angry and began to attack my person with insults, declaring he believed the Bible as much as me. I responded that not only did he not believe the Bible as much as me, but he didn’t believe it as much as the people in that church. I then said to him, “You believe the Bible contains the Word of God, but you don’t believe it’s all the Word of God. Correct?” He acknowledged my assessment of his beliefs was accurate.
“Well, I agree with the candidate,” one lady said as she jumped to her feet to defend him. “He’s right! I think our denomination has wrongly given more prominence to the Scriptures than to Jesus.” To which I replied to her, “Please tell me how any of us can know anything authoritative about Jesus outside of the Bible?”
The candidate then replied, “I know! By experience!”
“Experience?” I responded. “And by what standard shall we measure the reality or truth of one’s experience without a Bible that does not err, and is authoritative in everything?” I asked. “How can we tell whether our experience is from God or the devil? Are we to believe our experience can never lead us astray — that our experience will never lead us to a counterfeit Christ?”
No one said anything further and the candidate withdrew his name for consideration, saying he could never be in a church with someone like me. Others, however, argued that I had just saved the church from many troubles and possible failure.
The crux of the matter is abundantly clear for those willing to think and look to the Scriptures. What Andy Stanley espouses is not what Jesus believed and taught about Scriptural authority. Let’s not forget Jesus Himself submitted to the Scriptures. Our Lord so identified Himself and his ministry with Scripture that he affirmed to the degree that one accepts the Scriptures is the degree to which one may know Him.
It should trouble us greatly anytime someone holds a different view of the Written Word than the one held by the Living Word, the Lord Jesus Christ. It ultimately leads to making our own opinions, beliefs and experiences the authority rather than God’s revelation. Such only leads to error, compromise, and a falling away from the faith.
Islam subsribes to a gnostic Jesus. Gnosticism was very popular in the aramaic speaking regions in what is now Iraq and Syria. It’s probable the koran borrowed heavily from th religious millieu going on in that region. Many of the stories in the koran would be seen as plagiarism in a modern context. I studied syriac in a previous life.
True. The practice arose by placing a hedge around a certain commandment. And then adding a hedge around the hedge. And so on. The hedge serving to limit the possibility of breaking a commandnent. Of course the hedge upon hedge became a thicket. And the thicket became a forest. And in time God was obscured
Most of Muhammed’s understanding of Christianity and biblical stories came from Waraqah ibn Nawfal, a former Catholic priest wannabe for one of the desert sects who had some really strange beliefs about biblical patriarchs. Even Wikipedia admits that “Waraqah is also important because he plays a role in legitimizing Muhammad’s revelation.”
Yes, the hedge laws. I had a pastor preach that about 10 years ago and it really affected my total understanding of some of the things the Pharisees did and said.
Needs to be preached more for the legal fundamentalists of our days.
Here is an interesting take on why 66 books in non Roman bible. The Tanakh having 39. The new testanent canon having 27. Whether by pure coincidence or not, The Book of Isaiah has 66 chapters. The first 39 are analogous to the 39 of the Tanakh. Chapter 40 of Isaiah is Messianic. Containing the familiar passage “The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.”
The gospel of Mark opens with a quote of this Isaiah passafe. Thus chapters 40-66 (27 in total) are analogous to the 27 books of the New Testament canon.
Agree. Look at me. I am a bit of a rough diamond, both in speech at times and in appearance ( often mistaken for an old bikie,which I’m not). I have been lectured to about ‘foul language’ and dress codes etc so many times I lose count. I hated when I had to wear suits until I retired. If I hit my thumb with a hammer and say ‘fuc@’ I am automatically expressing a word that my mind/communication nexus sees as appropriate for the occasion to express my pain. And I am sure God has better things to do than chase down every individual who utters a so called ‘taboo’ word and hit them over the head with guilt and recrimination
I agree in theory but we do have to account for the Scripture telling us, as Christians, to not do things which will provide stumbling stone for non-believers. Paul even said he would not eat meat if it meant causing a weaker brother to stumble.
And if we want to reach the lost, giving them grounds on which to ignore us can ultimately be far worse than just controlling our mouth. I choose to control myself so that I might reach others, not because God might be unhappy with me.
There ya go!
In Athens, these translation fights do not exist.
Oh yeh. Agree there has to be difference in how we conduct our lives and approach a matter. Not for earning the ticket to get on the train, but out of appreciation for having been given a ‘Paid For’ one. Make sense?
In my resources, I do include a few selected verse passages that have been translated by ELSIE.
Mark Twain had a corollary:
It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.
I have a slightly different take on it:
It’s easier to fool people than to get them to admit that they have been fooled.
Some folk’s Spring is another fella’s Swamp!
yup: Confirmational Bias
Then you have me beat, for I am still a lump of coal.
2 Kings 9:8
“For the whole house of Ahab shall perish: and I will cut off from Ahab him that pisseth against the wall, and him that is shut up and left in Israel:
How does one test the truth? What is the touchstone?
experience? Tradition? What others tell you the Bible says?
The Holy Spirit will always point to God’s word. If not, it aint the Holy Spirit.
Well you might need more pressure to become one or more irritation to become a pearl. Though I am sure, like me,you don’t revel in the prospect. Reminded of the lyrics by Bobby Womack
“You don’t know what you’ll do until you’re put under pressure,
Across 110th Street is a hell of a tester.”
Cool, seems once I learned of fore-shadowing, more and more examples continue to be revealed.
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