Replies

It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them."

Doesn’t mean they were ever saved to begin with.

if someone shared the gospel with them and they refused it, they would qualify.

Biden and pelosi were baptized into Catholicism as infants, exercising no conscious decision of commitment to Christ by an act of their own volition. It was imposed on them without their consent or choice, and with no ability to exercise their own saving faith.

Salvation therefore could not be confirmed to them by anyone because that bishop did not know their hearts.

Since ceremonies and rituals do not save anyone, one cannot presume they lost their salvation because there is no evidence they were ever saved to begin with.

Doesn’t mean they were ever saved to begin with. If someone shared the gospel with them and they refused it, they would qualify.

Doesn’t mean they were not saved either, does it?
But we don’t even have to quibble about what the “Sacred Command that was passed on to them has to mean”.
Let’s just go with your “not saved” theory then.
So, “It would have been better for them not to have known…” if they were “just” unsaved people then, on the periphery,
think how MUCH MORE WORSE would it be then for those who ARE actually saved then, or for those who claim to be saved - if they were to turn their backs on the “Sacred command while saved?
Sounds to me like it would be even worse, double bad then…as the consequence would seem to increase then proportional to the level of belief of the one turning their back will see.
So saved or unsaved- the warning is real. That's my take on that.

Biden and pelosi were baptized into Catholicism as infants, exercising no conscious decision of commitment to Christ by an act of their own volition. It was imposed on them without their consent or choice, and with no ability to exercise their own saving faith. Salvation therefore could not be confirmed to them by anyone because that bishop did not know their hearts.

Are you saying an act of ones "own volition" is required to be saved?
That sounds like I have to do something.... then. which sounds like a work... no ?

Also… if you say infants, unable make “conscious” decisions, are disqualified from saving themselves, and also those who present themselves then “”consciously” to the Bishop for the Confirmation of the Holy Spirit are also disqualified from being saved as well… who can be saved then in your plan?

That’s a “Heads” – You win !...
”Tales” - I lose !... Not fair…

The Truth is, Justification is a Free Gift gift, freely given...
by saying we have to have conscious assent – that an infant does not have- then it must be necessary to wait until I can feel that, I'm ready and that " I that I do now merit this now...” by “accepting” Jesus as a teenager or whenever.

The beauty of Infant baptism is that it is all pure gift. In a similar way, as our human lives are given to us as a free gift... it's a life we could not ask for, a life we had no decision in whatsoever.

And in the same way we can lose...or kill... our human life God has freely given us, and so too can we harm the regenerated new life we were given at Baptism.

Since ceremonies and rituals do not save anyone, one cannot presume they lost their salvation because there is no evidence they were ever saved to begin with.

Now we're getting somewhere.
Could you please outline what you consider - or what that standard is - for knowing WHAT that "Evidence" exactly is to qualify one to be saved???..(or to prove one was "ever saved to begin with, as you say)

Since ceremonies and rituals do not save anyone,...

Are you sure about that?
Absolutely sure... like your Faith life depends on it???
I thought about you as this scripture reading popped up in Mass today, ironically...

From Jonah:

6 Then tidings reached the king of Nin′eveh, and he arose from his throne, removed his robe, and covered himself with sackcloth, and sat in ashes.
7 And he made proclamation and published through Nin′eveh, “By the decree of the king and his nobles: Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste anything; let them not feed, or drink water,
8 but let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and let them cry mightily to God; yea, let every one turn from his evil way and from the violence which is in his hands.
9 Who knows, God may yet repent and turn from his fierce anger, so that we perish not?”

10 When GOD SAW WHAT THEY DID, how they turned from their evil way,
God repented of the evil which he had said he would do to them;
and he DID NOT do it.

Rituals... can't live with them, can't live without them ?