Catholics Don't Believe You Can Earn Your Way to Heaven

A man commits a serious crime, then he gets released. He has "paid his debt to society". But wait a minute, he's only ready for the half-way house. He's unlikely to get a prestigious job in his new prison suit coat, or any job at all; he has civil impediments, he can't vote or hold certain offices. His crime was serious enough that he won't be presumed to have been completely rehabilitated until he performs a notable service to society, or at least spends many years on the straight and narrow, so that his crime can be truly overlooked or forgotten.

In Catholic faith, your "debt to society" is paid by Jesus Christ on Calvary. It's called "eternal punishment", without Christ it keeps you from going to heaven. Supposing that you do take advantage of His sacrifice, you're truly sorry, have a firm purpose of amendment, if you relapse, you go again for forgiveness (to the Sacrament of Confession).

But your sin leaves a strong trace at another layer of impurity called "temporal punishment due to sin", like the civil impediments facing the half-way house prisoner. Because "nothing impure can enter heaven", there is a place or a state, a condition of purification to render you fit for heaven after Christ has finally saved you from hell. The Catholic Church calls it purgatory.

(Where is it in the bible? Where is the word Trinity in the bible? Where does it say that you only need a personal relationship with Jesus Christ? Many valid principles aren't stated explicitly in the bible, but it does say to "hold fast to the traditions you have learned, whether by word or by letter", because much of the Gospel wasn't written down, as Jesus only wrote in the sand, the majority of the Gospel was taught from word to ear to people who couldn't afford expensive books, the exceptions were what tended to get written down. But the implication that there is a purgatory, is contained in the bible--see the comments.)

The ex-con can receive a pardon or commutation of his probation from a Governor, if he performs some heroic deed, saving numerous lives, or, like Chuck Colson, performs a long-lasting, valuable community service helping numerous people who can't help themselves.

In the Catholic Church there are 2 ways for the residual, temporal effects due to sin to be expiated: suffering in this life, or after life, undergoing purifying suffering along with other people who will finally be saved, but have to suffer for long without the vision of God--that is what causes them their pain.

Their suffering isn't meritorious enough to grant their release, the saints in heaven and those on earth suffering and practicing virtue can pray for the suffering souls in purgatory. In no way is their release by slow transfer of suffering or practice of virtue, "buying heaven". It's a long, excruciating process.

How the misunderstanding arose that Catholics think they can buy their way into heaven, is involved with history more than 500 years old. For a millennium of Christendom between roughly 410 and 1410, there was a Medieval civilization with harmony between faith and government.

Many small farmers would cluster around the manor house of a military lord who would protect them, in exchange for a certain fixed obligation of labor and agricultural produce. In most cases, those "serfs" had much more leisure than factory workers of the industrial revolution; there were a large number of holy days without work, and except for planting and harvesting, there were long stretches of idle time.

Another large sector of the economy surrounded monasteries, where the monks developed most of the farming practices that stabilized the serfs and their manorial lords. The monks who worked those monastic lands were sworn to poverty, so that monasteries built up large accumulations of economic value over decades and centuries of labor.

At the beginning, when lands were being cleared and put into production there weren't prominent town fairs ruled by merchants and bankers. Money wasn't used for sustenance, not even much barter occurred, life was mostly agrarian.

Charity was woven into the economy of monasteries. It was estimated that you only need travel 12 miles in medieval England between monasteries, where you could get a meal and minimal lodging for free, based on need. And the charity was also spiritual, including the ancient Catholic principle of prayer for the dead, which is biblical. (See "prayer for the dead" in the original King James Bible in the comment.)

There were foundations and benefices for praying for the dead, that allowed a person of means to support monasteries' charitable works, and in proportional response the monks would pray for the souls of the donors.

It happened at the close of the middle ages, that militarily strong nobles cast their eyes on the labor value accumulated by the poverty-sworn monks of the monasteries, which those nobles perceived as monetary wealth, especially where gold and jewels had been donated by the devout to adorn churches.

(Protestant writer William Cobbett wrote in his 1824 "A History of the Protestant Reformation in England and Ireland", an anecdote, that an incredibly valuable, hand illustrated bible was stripped of it's bejeweled, gold cover, the much more valuable hand-illumined manuscript, thrown in the mud and trampled by horses hooves by raiders suppressing the monasteries in Henry VIII's England.)

A new religion growing up around this seizure of monastic lands and valuables, that sought to discredit the Catholic Church, spread the black legend that the "sale of indulgences" was abusive. But this was very exceptional. Today the stipend of a Mass said for the dead is $10.

The Catechism says: 2010, “…Moved by the Holy Spirit and by charity, we can then merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification, for the increase of grace and charity, and for the attainment of eternal life.”

But the Bible says,
“ Jn 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Jn 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.””

Righteousness does not come from the Law at all, Paul explains here,”Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Gal 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, [is] therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
Gal 2:18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
Gal 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness [come] by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

The Catechism says:2027, “Moved by the Holy Spirit, we can merit for ourselves and for others all the graces needed to attain eternal life, as well as necessary temporal goods.””

But the Bible says,
“Jn 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Jn 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.”

The Catechism says:2068, “The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christians and that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 the Second Vatican Council confirms: “The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments.”

But the Bible says,
“Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, [it is] evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Gal 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that hangeth on a tree:
Gal 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.”

The Catechism says:2075 “What good deed must I do, to have eternal life?” - “If you would enter into life, keep the commandments” (Mt 19:16-17).

But the Bible says,
“Gal 3:21 [Is] the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye [be] Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.”

The Catechism says:2076 By his life and by his preaching Jesus attested to the permanent validity of the Decalogue.

But the Bible says,
“Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, [and] not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Heb 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
Heb 10:3 But in those [sacrifices there is] a remembrance again [made] of sins every year.
Heb 10:4 For [it is] not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Heb 10:6 In burnt offerings and [sacrifices] for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
Heb 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
Heb 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and [offering] for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure [therein]; which are offered by the law;
Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once [for all].
Heb 10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
Heb 10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.”

Well I wasn't looking for that much ... and you've got Justification thrown in as well... irony though Friday a read a good explanation of the mischaraterized Catholic theology of Salvation to post but had no time- tomorrow I hope.
So let's see what I reply:

Jesus knew what baptism was and if He had meant baptism in John 3, He would certainly have used the word. Birth by water is natural human birth, amniotic fluid.

Amniotic fluid? Seriously? I know you don't believe that... really?
thats kinda a funny...
You MUST be born of amniotic fluid AND spirit?.... thank God Jesus didn't go for a placental after- birth analogy lol. Though more apt than amniotic though ie. Blood...But no, the Greek word in John's Gospel "hydatos" clearly references water...water in a pitcher, water in a well, water that is drank... eeeeewww...Amniotic? it's a bit of a stretch there for hydatos... but if that's what you need to read it as... so be it....
We can agree though Christ should have said " born of flesh And spirit" to make that "not a Baptism" fantasy of your belief work...
even still Nicodemus would have thought Christ to be a little loopy for suggesting, redundantly, someone had to be born from the uterus first -to get saved.... one would think that's a given... to first be born a human..no?
Actually though, wasn't it Nicodemus who was called a dummy by Christ? - as being THE teacher of Israel- he mistakenly thought Christ was referring to uterine re-entrance in their born from above discourse- No, sorry, Christ shut down any idea he was referring to any idea of natural birth there conversing with Nic about being born from above... and you should too.

Peter also tells us that the baptism that confers spiritual life is NOT water baptism.

FALSE. A big false.. You misunderstand the Bible... though not your fault, it's due in part to whatever modern translation version they push on you. So I did learn something important- it appears you are using a Bible care Holmans Christian bible?? What translation do you use??

While not familiar with that Bible I assume it's a modern take on the bible. I may be wrong... but if its a modern version... it's probably a train wreck like the NIV.
You have to realize modern translations are skewed - biased - toward the belief of the translator... losing any of the divine. Look at the same KJV (non- Catholic) verse...

your verse:
1 Peter 3:21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

KJV:
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Your verse puts in "corresponds to this"...where for 1800 years it has been "like figure". Why would you need a Bible that changed the meaning?

Douay:
21 Whereunto baptism being of the like form, now saveth you also: not the putting away of the filth of the flesh,...

Like form of what? Or Like figure of what? What comparison is Oeter making?
Well in context.... prior verses to this one:
KJV:
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by WATER.
The "like form" of Noah's flood waters.... Baptism NOW SAVETH YOU....
Now if you need a word like "corresponds" to rewrite the verse..go for it.

Also to note: where Peter says also of the Water... " not a way of putting away the filth of the flesh"
He making sure the reader understands Baptism IS NOT TO BE CONFUSED with the Jewish mikvah- or "ritual" cleansing the Jews practiced. No way Jose.
Peter wants to make sure this Water had a special purpose.
Sorry for the length of this.
I pare because I care.

At the Council at Jerusalem in Acts 15, baptism was not even mentioned. If it was essential for salvation, then it was a pretty serious oversight on the part of the disciples.

AN argument from silence is always a weak one. You're simply reading back into sacred history, as Protestants always tend to do... and try to presume that today's objections and protests existed then, as they do today...
well guess what?
THEY DIDN'T!!
There was no misunderstanding of what Baptism was... so there WAS NO NEED to gave it discussed in Concilar debate (As the Church councils would continue to do.)
No... and to flip it around on you...
IF THERE WAS AN ISSUE with regard to the FORM of Baptism...you can be dang sure Peter would have dealt with that as well.
capice??
Check out the Didache as well on this... " The teaching of the Apostles"- it clearly notes how the First Century Church was to perform Baptism.
And yes, it's real.

Paul also told us in 1 Corinthians 1 that he was sent to preach, not to baptize. If baptism were required for salvation, then why would Jesus have told him that and not commanded him to make sure and baptize as well?

Paul DID baptize...in fact he can't remember who all he did baptize... but yes it seems he was telling those who followed Paul, or Apollos- or whomever that his Baptism was not to continue to cause division in that community and say he was baptized in the name of Paul. It's pretty clear.
BUT PAUL DID BAPTIZE.. he says do...
WAS HE DISOBEYING JESUS THEN??
You see the pickle that argument puts you in?

1 Corinthians 1:14-17 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, SO THAT NO ONE MAY SAY YOU WERE BAPTIZED IN MY NAME. (I did baptize also the household of Stephanas. Beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized anyone else.) For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with words of eloquent wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

The power is in the preaching

Preaching doesn't save anyone....and Satan takes the power of preaching and uses it to his means.... do I need to point out modern day examples of false preachers ?
I don't Osteen think so...

The Catholic religion makes the symbols, the representations the reality and that is not what God ever did in Scripture.

Really? God not only "did"...its in scripture...though you will write it off as "symbology"... The eyewitness tells us of the purification of Christ's Blood and Water thst poured from the Cross onto Earth on that first Good Friday:

After Jesus died on the cross, “one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out.” (Jn 19:34-35).
John witnessed and explained the meaning of what he saw: This is He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not only by water but by water AND blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth…there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the WATER and the blood; and these three agree as one (1 Jn 5:6-8).

As I said ..TOGETHER... not separate or to be separated.... John 3:5

Baptism is where water and blood come together under the eternal Spirit of God. Jesus Christ arose from death by the Holy Spirit (1 Pet 3:18) to enter heaven as our mediator before God (Heb 9:15, 24).
The Holy Spirit, which God gives to believers, testifies that Jesus is alive and that His blood cleanses us (Heb 9:14) today. So while a sinner is immersed in water physically, his spiritual being is being cleansed in the blood of Christ.

Again, ALL THROUGHOUT God breathed scripture, you will find Water integral to new life... culminating in being born from Above.
Scripture.

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