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Locked on 04/24/2022 5:40:39 AM PDT by Religion Moderator, reason:
Childishness |
Posted on 03/06/2022 11:16:06 AM PST by CharlesOConnell
A man commits a serious crime, then he gets released. He has "paid his debt to society". But wait a minute, he's only ready for the half-way house. He's unlikely to get a prestigious job in his new prison suit coat, or any job at all; he has civil impediments, he can't vote or hold certain offices. His crime was serious enough that he won't be presumed to have been completely rehabilitated until he performs a notable service to society, or at least spends many years on the straight and narrow, so that his crime can be truly overlooked or forgotten.
In Catholic faith, your "debt to society" is paid by Jesus Christ on Calvary. It's called "eternal punishment", without Christ it keeps you from going to heaven. Supposing that you do take advantage of His sacrifice, you're truly sorry, have a firm purpose of amendment, if you relapse, you go again for forgiveness (to the Sacrament of Confession).
But your sin leaves a strong trace at another layer of impurity called "temporal punishment due to sin", like the civil impediments facing the half-way house prisoner. Because "nothing impure can enter heaven", there is a place or a state, a condition of purification to render you fit for heaven after Christ has finally saved you from hell. The Catholic Church calls it purgatory.
(Where is it in the bible? Where is the word Trinity in the bible? Where does it say that you only need a personal relationship with Jesus Christ? Many valid principles aren't stated explicitly in the bible, but it does say to "hold fast to the traditions you have learned, whether by word or by letter", because much of the Gospel wasn't written down, as Jesus only wrote in the sand, the majority of the Gospel was taught from word to ear to people who couldn't afford expensive books, the exceptions were what tended to get written down. But the implication that there is a purgatory, is contained in the bible--see the comments.)
The ex-con can receive a pardon or commutation of his probation from a Governor, if he performs some heroic deed, saving numerous lives, or, like Chuck Colson, performs a long-lasting, valuable community service helping numerous people who can't help themselves.
In the Catholic Church there are 2 ways for the residual, temporal effects due to sin to be expiated: suffering in this life, or after life, undergoing purifying suffering along with other people who will finally be saved, but have to suffer for long without the vision of God--that is what causes them their pain.
Their suffering isn't meritorious enough to grant their release, the saints in heaven and those on earth suffering and practicing virtue can pray for the suffering souls in purgatory. In no way is their release by slow transfer of suffering or practice of virtue, "buying heaven". It's a long, excruciating process.
How the misunderstanding arose that Catholics think they can buy their way into heaven, is involved with history more than 500 years old. For a millennium of Christendom between roughly 410 and 1410, there was a Medieval civilization with harmony between faith and government.
Many small farmers would cluster around the manor house of a military lord who would protect them, in exchange for a certain fixed obligation of labor and agricultural produce. In most cases, those "serfs" had much more leisure than factory workers of the industrial revolution; there were a large number of holy days without work, and except for planting and harvesting, there were long stretches of idle time.
Another large sector of the economy surrounded monasteries, where the monks developed most of the farming practices that stabilized the serfs and their manorial lords. The monks who worked those monastic lands were sworn to poverty, so that monasteries built up large accumulations of economic value over decades and centuries of labor.
At the beginning, when lands were being cleared and put into production there weren't prominent town fairs ruled by merchants and bankers. Money wasn't used for sustenance, not even much barter occurred, life was mostly agrarian.
Charity was woven into the economy of monasteries. It was estimated that you only need travel 12 miles in medieval England between monasteries, where you could get a meal and minimal lodging for free, based on need. And the charity was also spiritual, including the ancient Catholic principle of prayer for the dead, which is biblical. (See "prayer for the dead" in the original King James Bible in the comment.)
There were foundations and benefices for praying for the dead, that allowed a person of means to support monasteries' charitable works, and in proportional response the monks would pray for the souls of the donors.
It happened at the close of the middle ages, that militarily strong nobles cast their eyes on the labor value accumulated by the poverty-sworn monks of the monasteries, which those nobles perceived as monetary wealth, especially where gold and jewels had been donated by the devout to adorn churches.
(Protestant writer William Cobbett wrote in his 1824 "A History of the Protestant Reformation in England and Ireland", an anecdote, that an incredibly valuable, hand illustrated bible was stripped of it's bejeweled, gold cover, the much more valuable hand-illumined manuscript, thrown in the mud and trampled by horses hooves by raiders suppressing the monasteries in Henry VIII's England.)
A new religion growing up around this seizure of monastic lands and valuables, that sought to discredit the Catholic Church, spread the black legend that the "sale of indulgences" was abusive. But this was very exceptional. Today the stipend of a Mass said for the dead is $10.
you know I’m right
***
You do know that mind reading is STILL against RF rules, right Phil?
Of course, since you have outright confessed that you ignore Scripture that you don’t like, why should I expect you to obey RF rules?
I will
strawman argument
Hahahah.
Phil, you outright refused to engage with the Word.
And you boasted about doing so.
Don’t blame me that I’m throwing it in your face.
The Godly thing to do would be to repent and then return to his Word.
The Phil thing to do, apparently, is to double down.
Can you imagine believing in a God that is so weak, he doesn’t even know who are his?
He’s been investigating since the 1800s... (created in response to cover up a false prophecy that sucked old Ellen in).
I prefer the Omniscient Son of God of the Bible, who knows who are His and knew it from eternity past!
If it’s such a strawman, then prove me wrong and engage with all the parts of Scripture that you boasted about not needing.
I suspect that you won’t.
You'd have to be somewhere and leave before you could return!
——>Of course, since you have outright confessed that you ignore Scripture that you don’t like...
I hope you can prove that. I would imagine that’s against RF rules too. You are also claiming to read my mind.
Looks like I got someone on the defensive.
It’s easy to prove me wrong about you ignoring Scripture you don’t like, but I note that you’ve steadfastly refused to do so.
No, you said that I “outright confessed that I ignore Scripture that I don’t like... Please show me where I have ever CONFESSED to that.
It isn't??? Doesn't your Bible have this:
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! By His great mercy He has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, reserved in heaven for you, who through faith are shielded by God’s power for the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time. (I Peter 1:3-5)
Remind the believers to submit to rulers and authorities, to be obedient and ready for every good work, to malign no one, and to be peaceable and gentle, showing full consideration to everyone. For at one time we too were foolish, disobedient, misled, and enslaved to all sorts of desires and pleasures—living in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another. But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared, He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit. This is the Spirit He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that, having been justified by His grace, we would become heirs with the hope of eternal life. This saying is trustworthy. And I want you to emphasize these things, so that those who have believed God will take care to devote themselves to good deeds. These things are excellent and profitable for the people. (Titus 3:1-8)
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realms. For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His presence. In love He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of His glorious grace, which He has freely given us in the Beloved One. In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace that He lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. And He has made known to us the mystery of His will according to His good pleasure, which He purposed in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to bring all things in heaven and on earth together in Christ. In Him we were also chosen as God’s own, having been predestined according to the plan of Him who works out everything by the counsel of His will, in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, would be for the praise of His glory. And in Him, having heard and believed the word of truth—the gospel of your salvation—you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the pledge of our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession, to the praise of His glory. (Ephesians 1:3-14)
And, finally, especially for you:
But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, arguments, and quarrels about the law, because these things are pointless and worthless. Reject a divisive man after a first and second admonition, knowing that such a man is corrupt and sinful; he is self-condemned. (Titus 3:9-11)
Laughing at satan's minions is one thing, sharing the Gospel, as Boatbums did so beautifully, is quite another thing. Her post is far and away the more valuable than a hearty laugh at a fool on their way to hell.
I think of the seekers who are at risk with the satanic lying cultist's efforts. An unsaved person seeking to understand is being led astray from the Truth. THAT is the devil's work exposed.
Your knowledge of scripture is gold. Spend wisely. Satan is the father of lies and when someone denies the sufficiency of Christ's blood to redeem to the uttermost, that denier is either demonically inspired or mentally deficient. BUT sharing the truth of the Gospel of Grace is ALWAYS gold and used by The Holy Spirit where and when we cannot even know.
The incessant taunting and ranting posts of a cultist are a sign that the demonic is in play. The other clear indication of demonic influence is the posting of lengthy scripture passages without the poster actually knowing what, to whom, and why the passage is about. Catholics are big on that category 'wresting the scriptures' in their ignorance.
See you int he pre-trib, OSAS clouds, Brother. Spend the gold of your scripture education wisely.
That’s why I stopped after 2-3 minutes of chuckling.
And it was after I offered an attempt to have a peaceful conversation as well.
And, finally, especially for you:
But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, arguments, and quarrels about the law, because these things are pointless and worthless. Reject a divisive man after a first and second admonition, knowing that such a man is corrupt and sinful; he is self-condemned. (Titus 3:9-11)
The key words here are “foolish, pointless, and worthless” Discussing the false doctrine of OSAS is neither one of those descriptors. It actually will decide the salvation of countless Christians. Paul goes to great lengths to warn us against continued, willful sin AFTER GRACE. Christ, in Revelation, LITERALLY, brings up that doctrine, that of the Nicolaitans, in Rev 2.
You and your friends teach this doctrine as Gospel. That is the furthest thing from the truth. There is no such thing as OSAS. Any Christian who thinks there is, and THEN continues in sin after Grace, in an unrepentant state, will not be in heaven, no matter what you say....you contradict the CLEAR language and meaning of the bible. Posts 1510-1514 should be enough for anyone to deny OSAS. But, there is much more in that second video I posted, that any one of you could have watched and reported back on. Why don’t you be the first (as far as I know)?
I figured the false doctrine of the investigative judgment, came from Ellen G White. I admit I have never read even one word of her writings and never will, but I wonder what happens to all those people who lived and died before she conjured up this false doctrine?
I would suspect that she might have said one or two things, that were not false, but this investigative judgment is the dumbest false doctrine I ever saw. It’s as bad, or worse than any false Catholic doctrine. I don’t know, but maybe they think it’s some sort of second chance, if they die unsaved. There is too much false doctrine here. 😀🤗
OSAS bro.
Your link just takes me back to the FR home page.
It’s link to your entire posting history.
and?
—> OSAS bro.
OOAO - Once (debt of sin) Obliterated Always (debt of sin) Obliterated
OSAS - Once Sealed Always Sealed
OSAS - Once Seated (in the heavenlies with Christ) Always Seated
OBAB - Once Baptized (into Christ by the Spirit) Always Baptized
OCHACH - Once (held in) Christ’s Hand Always (held in) Christ’s Hand
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