Posted on 10/11/2021 10:01:48 AM PDT by Roman_War_Criminal
Excellent! Thank-you for posting.
You are seriously confused.
Not even worth addressing your post.
Having had a heart attack at 44 and now being 83 I call B$ on that.
Lots of broad assumptions and weak use of scripture.
You may have massive guilt and feel the need to earn salvation, whatever floats your boat.
I’m guaranteed Salvation because of what He did, my belief in that, and His promises since He holds the keys to Death and Hades.
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🛐🛐🛐🛐🛐🛐🛐
🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
Luke 21:34-36
King James Version
34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2021%3A34-36&version=KJV
The rapture resistors really are trying their mileage lately.
Wonder what spirit motivates them?
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1 John 5:11-12
New King James Version
11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 (A)He who has the Son has [a]life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20John%205%3A11-12&version=NKJV
Not so sure that Paul didn't claim that. And of course Jesus told the Father I have lost none that you have given me. He also said he was forgiving all sin past, present and future. How sad it must be to live a life in constant fear of being cast into the lake of fire. Lot of Bible references that caution us to fear not.
Romans 6 whole chapter
I have wondered if the thief on the cross is the only one in paradise.
Those who hold to the end times rapture scenario assert that the rapture removes Christians to, I presume, some type of paradise. It seems the Christian’s judgment is immediate.
Gabriel blowing his horn followed by the dead being raised is consistent with a theory that at death we go into a “soul sleep” from which we wake up when we hear the horn.
There is Lazarus and the Rich Man — does it teach about paradise and hell — or does it teach (modernizing it) that “they have the New Testament, let them read it!”
All three theories are supported by scripture.
Two comments:
(1) when three rather mutually exclusive theories are presented, how does one distinguish among them while we are still in our earthly bodies? Those who are dying to know the answer will be the first to know the answer.
(2) what difference does it make? This is not a test of fellowship; it is not doctrine for which there is a fork in the road: one way to heaven, the other doom. Now you must CHOOSE!
I generally select #2 since my salvation doesn’t depend on whether I figure this puzzle out. [What! Me Worry?] People have offered scenarios for centuries (maybe).
On the other hand, if I neglect to feed the hungry, etc., being a cheerful giver, etc., taking up my cross... my name might be blotted out of the Lamb’s Book of Life. Our time is best spent DOING Christianity rather than attempting to understand the enigmas of Christianity.
Romans 6:1-4 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
Romans 6:12-18 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.
What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness.
Romans 6:15-23 What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness. I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.
For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. But what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life. For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
2 Corinthians 5:4-8 For while we are still in this tent, we groan, being burdened—not that we would be unclothed, but that we would be further clothed, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.
So we are always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, for we walk by faith, not by sight. Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.
Ephesians 2:4-7 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
Except that works don't save you.
They are the FRUIT of salvation, not the cause of it.
If you can *lose* your salvation by not doing good works then you're depending on your good works to save you and they can't.
I KNOW what spirit motivates them.
It’s pretty revealing to me.
I have known many that never slowed down in their debauchery, but always considered themselves “born again” and waiting for the Rapture Plane to take them away from all their troubles. When I pointed out their lifestyles to them, then they would yell “but I am born again and am waiting for the rapture”, and they continue whatever they were slaves to. “You will know them by their fruits”, I believe is what was said in regards to that. Just because someone says that they are believers, doesn’t make it so. There are many wolves in sheep’s clothing. On the other hand, he said “Judge not, lest ye be judged”, so examination begins with yourself. If one believe that their are no consequences to their actions because of their salvation, then they might very well be the people that he was talking about in Matthew 7:21 “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father, which is in heaven.” I believe that it also what he meant in Luke 9:23, when he said “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me.” I believe that those ARE the “real” issues that you referred to. We are seeing the last days, as was prophesied in 2 Timothy 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
I feel that too many make the ‘pledge’ to check off as a ‘check box’ for assurance to heaven, and that is what I refer to as fire insurance. Saying “I am a Christian” doesn’t really mean a lot if you don’t really believe it and practice it. Contrary to belief, we will all be judged, as is written. The question is have your sins been forgiven? Paul said to examine yourself daily in 2 Corinthians 13 “Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?” I disagree with you that nobody thinks that the rapture is some kind of fire insurance. Based on what I have seen in my old age, many do, and they are the reprobates that Paul was talking about. Many go right on doing whatever they were doing before their salvation. I believe those ARE the real issues that we are facing today. You said that’s a lot of strawmen to knock down, but how can you knock them down by saying “nobody”? If you wish to knock down strawmen, you can quote scripture to do so. I will listen and agree or disagree with you. It is the truth. But your argument is essentially “because I said so”.
All the works that I mentioned are Christian works that follow becoming a Christian. Some are works mentioned in the third parable of Matthew 25.
There was not a hint that I said these works would earn salvation.
You and I both understand that Christian works follow the baptism of believers.
I attempted to select works that only a Christian would do. Being a cheerful giver is another following work of a Christian. Thus, by implication, I chose works that follow the event of becoming a Christian; they do not earn salvation, they result from one’s love toward the Lord.
Let’s think about scriptures that teach that one might lose one’s salvation by failing to do good works.
Parable #3, Matthew 25. These are the sheep that are on the Lord’s right hand, mainly because while they were actively doing works, and the Lord considered those works to be done to HIM. I interpret that to mean that the Lord is not offended, but rather, pleased, when Christians do good works.
There was a second group, the goats, in that parable who were indifferent about doing those Christian works. They failed to do Christian works and they are placed on the left hand of the Lord, condemned and sent to that other place. Failing to do Christian works causes the Lord to take the position that the goats are not doing good works to HIM. Goodbye, Goats!
The second parable of Matthew 25 is also about Christian works. Here, money is given to three servants in proportion to their abilities. Two of the servants double their money and are rewarded. They WORKED! They are REWARDED!
There was one servant, who from fear did not work. The Lord calls him LAZY and WICKED because he didn’t do works that the Lord expected him to do. He learned about outer darkness, weeping and gnashing of teeth.
SO, we have TWO parables that are consistent in teaching that those who did not WORK (after becoming a Christian) were condemned in no uncertain terms.
The first parable of Matthew 25 teaches about two groups of Christians, one group that is prepared, the other unprepared. The main lack of the unprepared is righteousness, which to some extent can be shown by doing Christian works.
As James said, faith without works is DEAD.
Scripture teaches that the Lord will blot our name out of the Lamb’s Book of Life. The theory that one’s name may be blotted out of the Lamb’s Book of Life for failing to work for the Lord is consistent with those two parables.
There are a huge number of works mentioned in the New Testament. Start with the Sermon on the Mount and make a list. It is not a short list.
I have known many that have adopted the attitude that since ‘now I am saved, so I can do anything and it will be forgiven, and I will still get my eternal reward’ mentality. It is literally a license to do anything the flesh desires...
The reality, I believe that there will be many on judgement day who will say, but, but, but, didn’t I call on your name? And He will say, “21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day,”Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!”. Matthew 7 counters the argument very well, I think.
You are 100% correct. I made the same argument. Once saved always saved then means that there is no penalty for future sin and that is certainly a license to sin. Then there are the ridiculous statements that their flesh sins but their spirit doesn’t so even if they did sin it doesn’t matter, or that we are no longer “under the law” so commandment keeping doesn’t apply to them, or it’s impossible to keep God’s law anyway, etc...
One cowardly poster called me a liar for what I just wrote above about no penalty for, and a license to sin. She bore false witness against me. The definition of sin is literally breaking God’s law (dictionary definition...an immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law). So, I say again to her and her buddies on this site....if there is a penalty for “born againers” that believe in once saved, always saved, that sin, what is it? She, or one of her friends, actually suggested that the penalty would be a few less jewels in the crown received in heaven. Absolutely ridiculous. If there is no penalty for sin, it means there is a license to sin with impunity. The verses you quoted from Matthew 7 will certainly apply to these people.
And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.
No, you were claiming Christians make those claims, not people who call themselves Christian.
There’s a big difference.
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