Posted on 08/23/2021 12:49:38 AM PDT by Cronos
Jesus MUST have been addled when He said this, "I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty.", otherwise Catholics would spend VERY little for foodstuffs and drink.
And people like you call out, "Lord - Lord" while disobeying His words: "Call no man father."
What the heck is an RCC? We’re not Italians living in Roma
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=roman+catholic+church+sign&iax=images&ia=images
Some people are truly idiots; others merely act like them on FR.
I shudda read ahead!
There are no tanks in baghdad!
I'd have to disagree and state that ONLY the body that came out of Mary was the actual, physical, and literal body of Jesus.
Any other 'explanation' is speculation.
Not to mention that when Jesus said “This is My Body”, He was giving them bread that didn’t come out of his body. It was obviously symbolic
It IS??
What verse(s) confirm this?
I'll bet you guys hang on THESE words from them as well; right??
• Augustine, sermon:
"Christ, you see, built his Church not on a man but on Peter's confession. What is Peter's confession? 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.' There's the rock for you, there's the foundation, there's where the Church has been built, which the gates of the underworld cannot conquer. — John Rotelle, O.S.A., Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine , © 1993 New City Press, Sermons, Vol III/6, Sermon 229P.1, p. 327
Augustine, sermon:
Upon this rock, said the Lord, I will build my Church. Upon this confession, upon this that you said, 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God,' I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not conquer her (Mt. 16:18). — John Rotelle, Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City, 1993) Sermons, Volume III/7, Sermon 236A.3, p. 48.
• Augustine, sermon:
For petra (rock) is not derived from Peter, but Peter from petra; just as Christ is not called so from the Christian, but the Christian from Christ. For on this very account the Lord said, 'On this rock will I build my Church,' because Peter had said, 'Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.' On this rock, therefore, He said, which thou hast confessed, I will build my Church. For the Rock (Petra) was Christ; and on this foundation was Peter himself built. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Christ Jesus. The Church, therefore, which is founded in Christ received from Him the keys of the kingdom of heaven in the person of Peter, that is to say, the power of binding and loosing sins. For what the Church is essentially in Christ, such representatively is Peter in the rock (petra); and in this representation Christ is to be understood as the Rock, Peter as the Church. — Augustine Tractate CXXIV; Philip Schaff, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers: First Series, Volume VII Tractate CXXIV (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf107.iii.cxxv.html)
• Augustine, sermon:
And Peter, one speaking for the rest of them, one for all, said, You are the Christ, the Son of the living God (Mt 16:15-16)...And I tell you: you are Peter; because I am the rock, you are Rocky, Peter-I mean, rock doesn't come from Rocky, but Rocky from rock, just as Christ doesn't come from Christian, but Christian from Christ; and upon this rock I will build my Church (Mt 16:17-18); not upon Peter, or Rocky, which is what you are, but upon the rock which you have confessed. I will build my Church though; I will build you, because in this answer of yours you represent the Church. — John Rotelle, O.S.A. Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City Press, 1993), Sermons, Volume III/7, Sermon 270.2, p. 289
• Augustine, sermon:
Peter had already said to him, 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.' He had already heard, 'Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona, because flesh and blood did not reveal it to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of the underworld shall not conquer her' (Mt 16:16-18)...Christ himself was the rock, while Peter, Rocky, was only named from the rock. That's why the rock rose again, to make Peter solid and strong; because Peter would have perished, if the rock hadn't lived. — John Rotelle, Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City, 1993) Sermons, Volume III/7, Sermon 244.1, p. 95
• Augustine, sermon:
...because on this rock, he said, I will build my Church, and the gates of the underworld shall not overcome it (Mt. 16:18). Now the rock was Christ (1 Cor. 10:4). Was it Paul that was crucified for you? Hold on to these texts, love these texts, repeat them in a fraternal and peaceful manner. — John Rotelle, Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City Press, 1995), Sermons, Volume III/10, Sermon 358.5, p. 193
• Augustine, Psalm LXI:
Let us call to mind the Gospel: 'Upon this Rock I will build My Church.' Therefore She crieth from the ends of the earth, whom He hath willed to build upon a Rock. But in order that the Church might be builded upon the Rock, who was made the Rock? Hear Paul saying: 'But the Rock was Christ.' On Him therefore builded we have been. — Philip Schaff, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1956), Volume VIII, Saint Augustin, Exposition on the Book of Psalms, Psalm LXI.3, p. 249. (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf108.ii.LXI.html)
• Augustine, in “Retractions,”
In a passage in this book, I said about the Apostle Peter: 'On him as on a rock the Church was built.'...But I know that very frequently at a later time, I so explained what the Lord said: 'Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church,' that it be understood as built upon Him whom Peter confessed saying: 'Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God,' and so Peter, called after this rock, represented the person of the Church which is built upon this rock, and has received 'the keys of the kingdom of heaven.' For, 'Thou art Peter' and not 'Thou art the rock' was said to him. But 'the rock was Christ,' in confessing whom, as also the whole Church confesses, Simon was called Peter. But let the reader decide which of these two opinions is the more probable. — The Fathers of the Church (Washington D.C., Catholic University, 1968), Saint Augustine, The Retractations Chapter 20.1:.
'You are Christ, Son of the living God.'...Now Christ called this confession a rock, and he named the one who confessed it 'Peter,' perceiving the appellation which was suitable to the author of this confession. For this is the solemn rock of religion, this the basis of salvation, this the wall of faith and the foundation of truth: 'For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Christ Jesus.' To whom be glory and power forever. — Oratio XXV.4, M.P.G., Vol. 85, Col. 296-297.
St. John Chrysostom (c. 344 - 407 A.D.) Therefore He added this, 'And I say unto thee, Thou art Peter, and
St. Hilary of Poitiers (c. 315 - 368 A.D.)
Hilary of Potier, On the Trinity (Book II):
Thus our one immovable foundation, our one blissful rock of faith, is the confession from Peter's mouth, Thou art the Son of the living God. On it we can base an answer to every objection with which perverted ingenuity or embittered treachery may assail the truth."-- (Hilary of Potier, On the Trinity (Book II), para 23; Philip Schaff, editor, The Nicene & Post Nicene Fathers Series 2, Vol 9.
Origen (c. 185 - 254 A.D.)
• Origen, Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew (Book XII):
“For a rock is every disciple of Christ of whom those drank who drank of the spiritual rock which followed them, 1 Corinthians 10:4 and upon every such rock is built every word of the church, and the polity in accordance with it; for in each of the perfect, who have the combination of words and deeds and thoughts which fill up the blessedness, is the church built by God.'
“For all bear the surname ‘rock’ who are the imitators of Christ, that is, of the spiritual rock which followed those who are being saved, that they may drink from it the spiritual draught. But these bear the surname of rock just as Christ does. But also as members of Christ deriving their surname from Him they are called Christians, and from the rock, Peters.” — Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew (Book XII), sect. 10,11 ( http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/101612.htm)
A lot of the debate here is literal vs metaphorical. Yes Jesus spoke both. Wisdom is knowing ..............
Mat_13:34 Jesus always used stories and illustrations like these when speaking to the crowds. In fact, He never spoke to them without using such parables.
God destroyed the temple, priestly system and sacrificial system and established the New Covenant. What exactly is the New Covenant? God explains it clearly in the OT and NT. I will let the reader do his own reasearch. But the essence of the New Covenant is a direct relationship with God through the Holy Spirit. “You must be born again.”
Psa_78:2 for I will speak to you in a parable. I will teach you hidden lessons from our past—
who will teach? God. The primary teacher is God, through the Holy Spirit and his Word. God will still use others but they are to be tested.
A personal illustration:
When I was young, in circumstances you might well guess, My father said to me, “Can’t died in the cornfield and Couldn’t and Wouldn’t are lost out there.”
I clearly remember stopping dead in my tracks and thinking: “There is a dead guy out in the cornfield? I play in that cornfield. Those other two guys don’t sound so nice either. I don’t think I want to play in the cornfield anymore.” And I didn’t for the rest of the summer.
Age, reflection and wisdom has changed my perspective.
CHILDREN TAKE ALL THINGS LITERALLY. Many Christians are still children, still milk drinkers. They never grow into mature Christians. Does it mean they are saved or not? I don’t know, that is God’s domain.
Me? I like to metaphorically gnaw on the bone of God’s word and his work on the cross. I love to chew on gristle (hard sayings) to get the good flavor and believe me bone marrow and gristle does have good flavor both literally (worldly)and figuratively (spiritually) But the spiritual flavor is eternal.
Folks, listen to what the Spirit says, not the world. Become mature Christians, don’t remain a child.
Rev_2:7 “Anyone with ears to hear must listen to the Spirit and understand what He is saying to the churches. To everyone who is victorious I will give fruit from the tree of life in the paradise of God.
Rev_2:11 “Anyone with ears to hear must listen to the Spirit and understand what He is saying to the churches. Whoever is victorious will not be harmed by the second death.
Rev_2:17 “Anyone with ears to hear must listen to the Spirit and understand what He is saying to the churches. To everyone who is victorious I will give some of the manna that has been hidden away in heaven. And I will give to each one a white stone, and on the stone will be engraved a new name that no one understands except the one who receives it.
Rev_2:29 “Anyone with ears to hear must listen to the Spirit and understand what He is saying to the churches.
Rev_3:6 “Anyone with ears to hear must listen to the Spirit and understand what He is saying to the churches.
Rev_3:13 “Anyone with ears to hear must listen to the Spirit and understand what He is saying to the churches.
Rev_3:22 “Anyone with ears to hear must listen to the Spirit and understand what He is saying to the churches.”
Do you get the theme? Is the Spirit talking to you?
You’re jumping topics belsize.
This is about the fact that Jesus said that the Eucharist is His body.
Boatbottom tried to quite erronesnd that’s why I showed you clearly that the early church believed Jesus when He said the Eucharist us His body.
Why do you deny Jesus’s own words?
Elsie, not need to call yourself an udiot. We don’t need to label you eith such truisms.
The church is the Catholic, the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic church along with our Orthodox and Coptic and Assyrian etc brethren.
We aren’t Adventists or Mormons like you all. We believe Jesus who said the Eucharist is His Body.
Elsie “Jesus MUST have been addled”
So your disdain for Our Lord, God and Savior, Jesus Christ, is shown for all to see
“The church is the Catholic, the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic church “
LOL.
That’s from the Gospel of Matthew.
We’re talking about a specific chapter from the gospel of John where Jesus repeats thrice that it us not metaphor. He loses disciples who deny His Words, just as you are doing.
Actually you go further. You, elsie think that “Jesus MUST have been addled” as you yourself wrote in this very thread.
“I have a question for you: Do you think of yourself FIRST as a Christian or as a Catholic?”
That is an excellent question. From what I read here on occasion, Catholics throw Christianity to the back seat in favor of their denomination, just as they throw Christ to the back seat in favor of a good, but completely human, woman.
Yes, that’s factual.
The kingdom of God is in the here and now, present in and through the Church. Yet it is a mixed reality that will only be perfectly realized at the end of history. This current “mixed” state can be seen as the Church on earth which now grows in the field of the world with both weeds and wheat until the harvest when Christ says he will “tell the reapers, Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned. But gather the wheat into my barn” (Matt 13:30).
1 Timothy 3
15 But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.
I see you’re active on this thread. I wanted to make sure you see my question.
Otherwise, I don’t think I’ll take the time to read your long post.
Thanks!
I didn’t see your reply to KR’s question either. “Catholic” or “Christian”?
It is an important question. I’d be interested in your answer.
You should make a reply.
LOL!
great minds
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