No, rather it is you who keeps putting an "incorrect example". The drowning man grabbing hold of the rescue buoy is in the same way that a lost sinner comes to saving faith in Jesus Christ as his redeemer, rescuer and savior. He doesn't then need to swab the decks, empty the bilge and stay onboard as a slave the rest of his life or he gets kicked off the boat into the briny deep again! NOBODY has claimed Christ will still save someone who doesn't want to be saved. We are told to BELIEVE, to RECEIVE, to COME UNTO HIM in order to have eternal life.
Cronos said: You are “saved” by grace in the same way that a drowning man is saved by someone throwing a rescue buoy at him. However the drowning man still has to move towards the buoy and not away from it. The drowning man was saved by the rescuer but still had to grab the rescue buoy, move towards the rescue buoy and not away.
You said: No, rather it is you who keeps putting an “incorrect example”. The drowning man grabbing hold of the rescue buoy is in the same way that a lost sinner comes to saving faith in Jesus Christ as his redeemer, rescuer and savior. He doesn’t then need to swab the decks, empty the bilge and stay onboard as a slave the rest of his life or he gets kicked off the boat into the briny deep again!
Maybe the guy was thrown overboard by the Captain/crew for crimes he committed (murder, theft, homosexuality, etc...) on board and maritime law of whatever country they were from, allowed for quick justice at sea. So, the guy is in the water, drowning. He’s asking for forgiveness and salvation, even though he deserves DEATH. The Captain and crew agree to forgive him and throw him a rope/life preserver. They pull him back on board. Guess what happens to him if he goes back to his sinning ways? He’s going in the water and he isn’t coming back. That guy is now under an even higher duty to live an obedient life (because he was saved from a certainty of death. He deserved to die) AND OBEY THE LAW. Now he’s a model crew member and lives the rest of his life serving his Captain.
Basically, that’s how it works.
Indeed, but we also know what "believe" means as regarding saving faith, which is that it effects characteristic obedience by the Spirit, and repentance after conviction of not doing so. As Luther and others themselves stated, faith is a living and an essential thing, which makes a new creature of man, changes his spirit... Faith cannot help doing good works constantly... if faith be true, it will break forth and bear fruit... where there is no faith there also can be no good works; and conversely, that there is no faith.. where there are no good works. Therefore faith and good works should be so closely joined together that the essence of the entire Christian life consists in both. if obedience and God's commandments do not dominate you, then the work is not right, but damnable, surely the devil's own doings, although it were even so great a work as to raise the dead... if you continue in pride and lewdness, in greed and anger, and yet talk much of faith, St. Paul will come and say, 1 Cor. 4:20, look here my dear Sir, "the kingdom of God is not in word but in power." It requires life and action, and is not brought about by mere talk. Works are necessary for salvation, but they do not cause salvation... faith casts itself on God, and breaks forth and becomes certain through its works... faith must be exercised, worked and polished; be purified by fire... it is impossible for him who believes in Christ, as a just Savior, not to love and to do good. If, however, he does not do good nor love, it is sure that faith is not present... where the works are absent, there is also no Christ... References and more by God's grace: http://peacebyjesus.net/Reformation_faith_works.html
Thus the actual debate with Catholics is that justification is by effectual faith being counted/imputed for righteousness, or on the basis of actually being made righteous, which leads to RC Purgatory in order to atone for venial sins that one did not sufficiently make expiation for on earth and actually become good enough to be with God. And such reactionary emphasis on merit such as by Trent', whereby the good works of the one justified merits the attainment of eternal life itself, being accounted to have, truly merited eternal life, coupled with man's natural tendency to see himself as meriting Heaven, or least not bad enough for Hell, results in most believing that they will end up in Heaven because they are pretty good, at least compared to their neighbors. To their eternal horror.
It is true that being saved by by grace, "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost" (Titus 3:5) does not mean man is passively regenerated as if this happens in his sleep, nor by inert faith, yet neither it is due to any merit of response. But that instead in conversion and in life God both motivates and enables man to do what he otherwise could not and would not do, and justifies the same by effectual faith.
For in Scripture we see that the lost damned+destitute sinner (1. Romans 3:10 )is drawn to God, (2. Jn. 6:44) whose heart the Lord opens, (3. Acts 16:14) and is granted repentant faith unto life. (4. Acts 11:18) With this regenerating heart-purifying God-given gift of faith (5,6,7,8. Acts 10:43; Ephesians 2:5; Acts 15:7-9) making him a new creation, (9. 2 Corinthians 5:17) and being imputed for righteousness, (10. Romans 4:4-5) and "accepted in the Beloved" on His account, and positionally seated with Him in Heaven, (11. Ephesians 1:6. 2:6) having immediate access into the holy of holies in Heaven by the sinless shed blood of Christ, (12. Hebrews 10:19) and to whom those of living effectual faith ill directly go to be forever with at death or at His returned, whatever comes first. (13. 1 Thessalonians 4:17 cf. Phil 1:23; 2Cor. 5:8
And in which believers the Holy Spirit dwells, striving against the flesh (14. Galatians 5:17; James 4:5) and motivating the redeemed both to will and to do the will of God. (15. Philippians 2:13) And yet which "obedience of faith" testifies and justifies one as being of justifying faith, (16,17. Hebrews 6:9.10; 1 Thessalonians 1:3-4) and which faith God rewards, (18. Hebrews 10:35) even though since all good if a gift of God (19. Hebrews 10:35) the only thing man can take credit for - and must - is that of resisting God. (20. Nehemiah 9:33)
And since man is justified by living, effectual faith which Abraham had, (21. Hebrews 11:17) and which effects characteristic obedience (1 Jn. 5:13) by the Spirit (22. Romans 8:14) - and which includes repentance when convicted by conscience of not doing so (23. 2 Corinthians 7:10-11; 1 John 1:8-9) - versus a faith that is alone, as meaning being of no positive effect in heart and life, (24. James 2:17ff) and that which is contrary to it - and which includes believing a false gospel, such as that one is actually saved by obedience, by merit, versus the faith that is behind this effect - then the Spirit many time warns believers, as believers, against developing an "evil heart of unbelief in departing from living God," from the faith they once held, falling from grace, making Christ of no effect, to no profit, drawing back to perdition," yielding to pressure to deny the faith after conversion so that Paul's labor would be in vain, (25. Gal. 5:1-5; Heb. 3:12014; 10:25-31, 38-39; 1 Thessalonians 3:5) Which is corespondent to the "great transgression" with its presumption which David warned of, (26. Psalms 19:13) wickedly departing from God, (27. 2 Samuel 22:22) which he did not finally do, being the sin unto death. (1 John 5:16-17)
1. As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: (Romans 3:10)
2. No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. (John 6:44)
3. And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul. (Acts 16:14)
4. When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life. (Acts 11:18)
5. To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins....Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? (Acts 10:43,47)
6. Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) (Ephesians 2:5)
7. And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. (Acts 15:7-9)
8. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Ephesians 2:8-9)
9. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. (2 Corinthians 5:17)Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
10. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. (Romans 4:4-5)
11. To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. (Ephesians 1:6) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: (Ephesians 2:6)
12. Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, (Hebrews 10:19)
13. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (1 Thessalonians 4:17; cf. Phil 1:23; 2Cor. 5:8)
14. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. (Galatians 5:17) Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy? (James 4:5)
15. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. (Philippians 2:13)
But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak. For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister. (Hebrews 6:9-10)
17. Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father; Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God. (1 Thessalonians 1:3-4)
18. Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. (Hebrews 10:35)
19. For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it? (1 Corinthians 4:7)
20. Howbeit thou art just in all that is brought upon us; for thou hast done right, but we have done wickedly: (Nehemiah 9:33)
21. By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, (Hebrews 11:17)
22. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. (Romans 8:14)
23. For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter. (2 Corinthians 7:10-11) If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (1 John 1:8-9)
24.>Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. (James 2:17)
25. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. (Galatians 5:2-5)
Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; (Hebrews 3:12-14)
Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. (Hebrews 10:25-31) Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul. (Hebrews 10:38-39)
For this cause, when I could no longer forbear, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter have tempted you, and our labour be in vain. (1 Thessalonians 3:5)
26. Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression. (Psalms 19:13)
27. For I have kept the ways of the Lord, and have not wickedly departed from my God. (2 Samuel 22:22)
28. If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death. (1 John 5:16-17)
However, as shown in past contention here, obedience by the Spirit is "Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord," (Jeremiah 31:32; cf. Hebrews 8:9) but under the New, in which the literal observance of typological laws are abrogated, but not the intent of such: "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." (Romans 8:3-4)