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To: HarleyD

The thought that someone born in a remote Chinese village who never heard the word of God, lived a decent life committing a few minor sins throughout his life will end up tortured in Hell for eternity is a thought that shakes many peoples’ faith.


4 posted on 07/09/2021 7:04:16 AM PDT by who_would_fardels_bear (This is not a tagline.)
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To: who_would_fardels_bear

The thought that God is a merciful and kind God is a comforting one.


6 posted on 07/09/2021 7:19:14 AM PDT by BipolarBob (I distrust camels and anyone else who doesn't drink for a week.)
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To: who_would_fardels_bear

We do not know what happens with those people. It is my belief knowing my Father that everyone will have the chance to say yay or nay to Gods plan of salvation. Meanwhile it is our job to reach as many with the good news of the gospel as we can


8 posted on 07/09/2021 7:23:24 AM PDT by Mom MD ( )
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To: who_would_fardels_bear

The key to that question is the idea that your remote Chinese person ‘lived a decent life committing a few minor sins.’

God is the one who sets the standard for ‘decent,’ ‘few,’ and ‘minor.’

God judges according to how each of us responds to the revelation we’ve been given.

‘But the one who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, will receive a light beating. Everyone to whom much was given, of him much will be required, and from him to whom they entrusted much, they will demand the more.’


10 posted on 07/09/2021 7:28:44 AM PDT by Tom in SFCA
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To: who_would_fardels_bear
Anyone who holds that ideal of eternal damnation of the innocent and uses it as a touchpoint - does not understand Christianity- and is a distortion, abusing Christ's Resurrection.
The Concept of Invincible Ignorance clearly does not support the faith shaking situation you mention.
12 posted on 07/09/2021 7:34:50 AM PDT by MurphsLaw (Blessed Virgin Mary...."Surely, from now on ALL generations will call me blessed;")
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To: who_would_fardels_bear
The thought that someone born in a remote Chinese village ...

C.S. Lewis addresses this in various writings. Among other things, he talks about the idea of Jesus saving such people in other ways.

13 posted on 07/09/2021 7:35:01 AM PDT by norcal joe
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To: who_would_fardels_bear

To whom much is given much is required has logical a flip side. How much that matters in spiritual things is up for discussion though.

Also, the idea of the LoF as punishment for deeds done rather than being a response to what the finally lost are maybe should be addressed. No one is going to be cast into the LoF because of what was written in the books, but only those whose name isn’t written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.

We are told that Christ came to destroy the works of the devil and sin is the work of the devil. We are also told by Christ Himself of two aspects of the estate of the lost: the worm and the fire.

Clearly on account of the first no sinning can remain even if the consequences for having sin may.

The implications of the second require some speculation as to the nature of the worm and the fire.

If the fire, wrath, is logically external to the damned then would the worm be internal?

Consider the earthly sensation of an itch that you just cannot scratch and the frustration it may cause directly in proportion to the strength of the itch.

Speculation: the worm is the sin nature of the finally damned, or rather the frustration they experience because an external force, wrath (the fire) is being applied to restrain the sin nature from ever again being expressed.

A person such as you describe would have difficulty having a strong sin nature since they never knew much about the Father or Christ and only had ordinary morality of their culture to rebel against. Even in the worst case scenario for such a person a weak sin nature would be relatively easy to restrain, not much wrath needed, not much of a worm as a result.

Which is to say that wrath can be exacting, remedial, and not punishment and torture.

The BENEFIT, yes “benefit’, is that the restrained sin nature cannot grow worse and the damned become as bad as bad can possibly be.

There is a possible sort of continuity between this speculation and what might be inferred for the state of the redeemed. With the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, no matter their old body of death, once that body of death is removed the saints will have a nature with a god-itch of its own, one that they will be free to scratch till they are as righteous as righteous can be as created beings.

Recall that the Lord is called a raging fire … the intense stuff is not necessarily where the damned are but where the redeemed are and they have a nature to both endure and enjoy it.

… and as a side note the construction of the New Jerusalem includes all that gold like glass … gold has some very interesting properties when it comes to light and heat … did you know we use gold to make glass face shields to protect men from intense fires even now?


17 posted on 07/09/2021 7:50:32 AM PDT by Rurudyne (Standup Philosopher)
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To: who_would_fardels_bear

“...someone born in a remote Chinese village who never heard the word of God...”

I am sorry this is long, but even simple answers from scripture are important, so I tend to explain my thinking a lot. I’ve been a Christian for over 50 years, and I don’t pretend to know all the answers, but here’s what I believe:

THIS IS A REPLY TO ANYONE WHO ASKS THIS QUESTION, whether sincerely (as concern), or in a hostile way (for an excuse). From your post, it seems that you are sincerely concerned, as am I.

I would NEVER belittle or cast aside as unimportant, this particular question. It is almost painful to think about it. We have to use scripture, though, and not our own sense of reason, justice, or mercy.

By saying that there has to be some other way for someone like that, we may actually be denouncing the gospel, or as Paul put it being “ashamed of the gospel”. Paul says that people have responded to the obvious evidence of God by imagining other ways to be righteous:


Romans 1:16-23
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.


Now take a look at these verses, and think for a minute:

Luke 6:41, 42
41 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but perceivest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

42 Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother’s eye.


Jesus said that we have enough trouble worrying about our OWN sin, and that we can only change ourselves. I know that these verses don’t strictly apply to this specific case, but again, the principle to learn is that we only have control of ourselves. In other words, I can only control my choices and opportunities - I have heard the gospel - What have I done with what I have heard?

And, to go along with that, not only can we not control others, but we cannot control God. We cannot tell him what to do, or what is “fair”:


Romans 9:21
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

Summary:

1. God has revealed himself to our spirits (Rom 1:19) and through creation (Rom 1:20). If that person responds in favor of God, perhaps God will send him a witness.
(Could that witness to that poor man be me? Only if I give my life to Christ.)

2. We have so much sin, we cannot address others’ sin, unless we get rid of ours.
(How can I help him with his sin? Only if Jesus has removed mine.)

3. God is God, and He will do what is right - and “right” is not for us to say.
(1 John 1:5 - This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all)

We should all do what God has for US to do, and He will take care of things not in our control.


21 posted on 07/09/2021 9:26:45 AM PDT by HeadOn (Love God. Lead your family. Be a man.)
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To: who_would_fardels_bear
The issue isn't how "good" someone is who ends up in Hell. The issue is whether they love God enough to ask forgiven for their sins and desires to live a righteous life.

As far as someone being born in a remote Chinese village who never heard the word of God, if God wants to open their eyes and ears to hear the truth, then He will find a way.

John 7:17 If anyone is willing to do His will, he will know of the teaching, whether it is of God or whether I speak from Myself.

25 posted on 07/10/2021 7:12:45 AM PDT by HarleyD (Dr E-"There are very few shades of grey.")
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