Pre-Trib Rapture Arguments

Presented without comment.

Sorry, your wrong.
It is mid trib.
Read a version of translation closer to the original writings.
Being swept away with out having to suffer at all is a dream and un-Biblical.

Ping.

I knew those opposed to the Pre-Trib rapture would come out of hiding. This article is meant for people like you.

So, that being said, you're wrong!

The Church WAS spared the tribulation - in 67-70 AD. They all left town (as Jesus had tole them to do) and fled before the destruction of Jerusalem. Not a single Christian was slain as non-believing Israel was virtually destroyed.

anybody believing in a pre-Trib rapture must be getting pretty nervous about why they’re still here

Here is a critical verse to understanding when the Rapture could occur…

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Personally I think these pre, mid, post trib discussions make zero difference. Just Be ready.

Not a single Christian was slain as non-believing Israel was virtually destroyed.

It is debatable whether this is true or not. However what is not debatable is that when the Christians in Jerusalem escaped to Pella, it was in the middle of the Roman siege of Jerusalem when Titus was briefly called back to Rome to help his father ascend the Roman throne.

A better rendering of The Apostasia is The Departure or the departing. Here is the Geneva Bible rendering:

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a departing first, and that that man of sin be disclosed, even the son of perdition.

The 'that day' in the Greek refers back to the day of the Lord. And the chapter begins by focusing the reader on the gathering unto Him that we should not be deceived over because the departure comes 'proton' / first before the man of sin who is the bane of the tribulation years can emerge.

The first several English translation Bible from the Greek rendered apostasi as only departure or departing.

The escape is attributed to what Jesus gave as recorded in Luke in the Temp[le Discourse which happened during the same day that the Olivet Discourse later happened. Te passage in Luke also parallels much of the Olivet Discourse which in Matthew’s Gospel account is a discourse given to Jews concerning the JEWISH endtimes, not for the Church. Jesus did not introduce the Church until later int he week, as recorded in John 14.

The Tribulation period is God's wrath. We think it's bad now? This is in no way even close to being as bad as what it will get. We're only catching a glimpse of the birth pangs Jesus spoke of. God's wrath will make even the worse period on earth look like child's play. Hebrews 10:31 “It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.” or as commonly said in modern vernacular 'you ain't seen nothin' yet'. (and according to scripture, believers will not see)

1 Thessalonians 1:10

KJV: And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come

NIV: and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead--Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath

It is very remarkable, and I have more than once called the reader’s attention to it, that not one Christian life was lost in the siege and destruction of Jerusalem. Every Jew perished, or was taken captive; all those who had apostatized, and slunk away from Christianity, perished with them: all the genuine Christians escaped with their lives. This very important information, which casts light on many passages in the New Testament, and manifests the grace and providence of God in a very conspicuous way, is given both by Eusebius and Epiphanius. I shall adduce their words: “When the whole congregation of the Church in Jerusalem, according to an oracle given by revelation to the approved persons among them before the war, were commanded to depart from the city, and inhabit a certain city which they call Pella, beyond Jordan, to which, when all those who believed in Christ had removed from Jerusalem, and when the saints had totally abandoned the royal city which is the metropolis of the Jews; then the Divine vengeance seized them who had dealt so wickedly with Christ and his apostles, and utterly destroyed that wicked and abominable generation.”

1) There are no passages in either the Old Testament or the New Testament that say the Church will go through the Tribulation Period.

[According to dispensationalism the church isn’t mentioned at all in the OT, so this shouldn’t be surprising. “Tribulation” is used more than a dozen times in the NT and it most certainly does have to do with what the original audience was going through]

2) The Tribulation Period is called the “Time of Jacob’s Trouble” (The time of unbelieving Israel’s Trouble), but it is never called the time of the Church’s Trouble (Jer. 30:7).

[Your definition of “The Tribulation” is unfounded, but the tribulation that the Jews would undergo in the Roman War was certainly intense.]

3) Gabriel told Daniel, “Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people [Daniel’s people are the Jews] and upon thy holy city” (The Holy City is Jerusalem) (Dan. 9:24). There is no mention of the Church.

[Right, because when the Romans destroyed them in the first century it wrapped that prophecy up.]

4) The Church had no part in the first sixty-nine weeks, and it will have no part in the seventieth week (the Tribulation Period) (Dan. 9:24).

[I don’t think you can prove that.]

5) In the Book of Revelation, the Rapture occurs at Rev. 4:1, which is before the Tribulation Period described in Rev. 6:1-19:21. In the sequence of events, the Rapture is before the seal, trumpet and bowl judgments.

[You should look more seriously at the repetitious nature of the structure of the book. In addition, you should try to figure out where Matt 24:29 fits into your system.]

6) The Church is mentioned more than twenty times in the first three chapters of Revelation, but the Church is never mentioned in the description of the Tribulation Period between Rev. 4:1 and Rev. 19:1.

[Might that be because Jesus told the Apostle to flee Jerusalem when the Romans surrounded it, which they did, and the rest of the book is aimed tightly at the destruction of Jerusalem?]

7) The Tribulation Period is called a Day of Wrath in the Bible (Zeph 1:15), but the Bible says, “God hath not appointed us (the Church) to wrath” (1 Thess. 5:9).

[That’s why Jesus told the church to flee and not look back. He was trying to save them from the wrath.]

8) The Tribulation Period is called a Day of Wrath in the Bible (Zeph. 1:15), but the Bible says, Jesus has “delivered us from the wrath to come” (delivered the Church from the Tribulation Period) (1 Thess. 1:10; also see Rom. 5:9, Eph. 5:6).

[same answer]

9) The Tribulation Period is called the Day of the Lord in the Bible (Zeph. 1:14). The Bible says, “the day of the Lord (the Tribulation Period) so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they (the unbelievers) shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them (upon the unbelievers), as travail upon a woman with child; and they (the unbelievers) shall not escape” (1 Thess. 5:2-3). It clearly teaches that the Tribulation Period will come upon unbelievers, but it does not include believers.

[Paul clearly tells the Thessalonians that they have been briefed on what will happen so that they won’t be surprised when they see it.]

10) Concerning the Rapture, the Bible says, “Comfort one another with these words” (1 Thess. 4:18). There’s no comfort in the teaching that the Church will go through part or all of the Tribulation Period.

[The comfort is that they will see their loved ones again, not that they’ll escape hardship]

11) Jesus told the Church at Philadelphia, “Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation (the Tribulation Period), which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth” (Rev. 3:10). God promised to keep the obedient Church members out of the Tribulation Period (not through the Tribulation Period).

[All it says is that he will protect them. You’re making the rest up]

12) According to the Bible, the marriage of the Lamb will take place in heaven before Jesus comes back to fight the Battle of Armageddon at the end of the Tribulation Period (Rev. 19:7-21). This means the Church will go to heaven (be Raptured) for the marriage of the Lamb before the Second Coming.

[Where?]

13) The end of the age will be like the days of Noah (Matt. 24:37). Noah and his family were removed from the earth (got on the ark) before the flood. Some believe this means that the Church will be removed from the earth before the judgment of God (Raptured before the Tribulation Period) (Gen. 7:23).

[Some probably do believe that]

14) The end of the age will be like the days of Lot (Luke 17:28). Lot and his family were removed from Sodom before the judgment of God (before the fire and brimstone fell) (Gen. 19:16). Some believe this means that the Church will be removed from the earth before the judgment of God (Raptured before the Tribulation Period).

[Some probably do believe that]

15) Jesus was talking about the Tribulation Period when He said, “Pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass” (Luke 21:36). It seems unreasonable to believe Jesus would tell the Church to pray for something He is unwilling to grant.

[Escaping from the Roman War doesn’t mean that you aren’t on earth when it happens]

16) The Bible says, “For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming” (2 Thess. 2:7-8). The most common interpretation of this is that the Antichrist can’t be revealed until the Restrainer (who most commentators say is both the Holy Spirit and the Church) is removed. If the Restrainer is the Church only, this means the Church will be removed before the Antichrist is revealed (that’s the Pre-Trib. Rapture). If the Restrainer is the Holy Spirit only so that the Holy Spirit is removed without the Church, this means believers will cease to be indwelt with the Holy Spirit.

It also means the Church will be left behind to go through the worst time the earth has ever seen (the Tribulation Period) without the help of the Holy Spirit. This would contradict the teaching of Jesus when He said, “I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever” (John 14:16). And, “I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee” (Heb. 13:5).

[So, what if the restrainer isn’t the Holy Spirit? That whole line of logic rests on something for which there is no direct evidence.]

17) Isaiah wrote that God said, “Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain” (Isa. 26:19-21).

Notice that the dead rise first (that’s the Rapture); next, God’s people are summoned to enter into His chambers for a short while until the indignation (a name of the Tribulation Period) is past. God will raise the dead and summon His people because He intends to punish the inhabitants of the earth (send the Tribulation Period).

[Hiding from judgment doesn’t mean beaming out]

18) Malachi wrote that God said, “They shall be mine, saith the Lord of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him. Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not” (Malachi 3:17-18). Pre-Tribulation teachers believe God is saying He will come for His Church (the Rapture), and then He will return with His Church (the Second Coming) to judge between the righteous and wicked.

[You are imagining a 7 year tribulation between these events. There is no evidence of it.]

19) In the Rapture, Jesus comes for His Church (1 Thess. 4:16-17; John 14:3). When He comes at the end of the Tribulation Period, He will come with His Church (1 Thess. 3:13; Rev. 19:14).

[Those passages don’t directly claim what you are saying.]

20) Concerning the Second Coming, Jesus said, “But of the day and the hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only” (Matt. 24:36). But if the Church goes through the Tribulation Period, some will know the day because it will be seven years from the signing of the seven-year covenant. Some will know the day because it will be 1,260 days from the day the Antichrist defiles the Temple (Rev. 12:6).

[At the time Jesus said those words it was true, but there is a reason that there are hundreds of time statements in the New Testament pointing towards a Roman War fulfillment.]

21) Concerning the Antichrist, many scholars believe the Bible teaches he won’t be revealed until after the Church is gone (2 Thess. 2:6-8), but if the Church goes through the Tribulation Period, some will know who he is because he will sign the seven-year covenant (Dan. 9:24-27), he will head up the world government (Rev. 13:1-10), and he will try to force multitudes to worship him and to receive his mark, receive his name or his number (Rev. 13:15-17). Many of those who are here and being forced to worship him and take his name or die will know who he is.

[Many scholars are making that up]

22) The Antichrist is not supposed to be revealed until after the Church is gone (2 Thess. 2:6-8), but if the Church goes through the Tribulation Period, the Church will know who the Antichrist is because he will put a statue of himself in the rebuilt Temple (Dan. 11:31; Dan. 12:11; Matt. 24:15).

[There is no evidence for this. Paul claims the opposite when he refers to teaching they’d already had in reference to “the restrainer”, etc.]

23) If the Church goes through the Tribulation Period, the Church will know who the Antichrist is because he will head up the world government and receive a deadly wound to his head that will be healed (Rev. 13:3). Some think he will be raised from the dead or at least fake the resurrection.

[So what?]

24) If the Church goes through the Tribulation Period, the Church will know who the Antichrist is because he will head up the world government and be supported by the head of the world religion called the False Prophet (Rev. 13:11-18).

[So what?]

25) If the Church goes through the Tribulation Period, the Church will know who the Antichrist is because he’s the one that will kill the Two Witnesses (Rev. 11:7).

[So what?]

26) Many people don’t think the Church will go through the Tribulation Period because of verses of Scripture that say things like, “The Lord preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked he will destroy” (Psa. 145:18-20). Many believe God will preserve the Church from the Tribulation Period or keep the Church out of the Tribulation Period, not destroy the Church in the Tribulation Period.

[Many would be artifically applying that to the concept of the rapture.]

27) There are verses of Scripture that say things like, “Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it” (Deut. 4:2; Prov. 30:5-6; Rev. 22:18-19). Some believe people have to throw away verses of Scripture to believe the Church will go through the Tribulation Period.

[That’s not even an argument....]

28) In the seven letters to the seven churches, Jesus said, “He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches” seven times (Rev. 2:7,11, 17, 29; 3:6, 13, 22). When we get to the Tribulation Period, Jesus said, “If any man have an ear, let him hear” (Rev. 13:9). He left out, “what the Spirit saith unto the churches” because there are no churches on earth to go through the Tribulation Period. The Church will be in heaven.

[Um, might that be because they’re not the target audience at that point?]

29) When the Rapture happens, the Church goes up to meet Jesus in the air (1 Thess. 4:13-18), but at the end of the Tribulation Period, the Church will come down to the earth with Jesus to witness what He does at the Battle of Armageddon (Rev. 19:14-21).

[The text doesn’t clearly state that.]

30) The Pre-Tribulation Rapture is more consistent with God’s grace, love, mercy, compassion, etc. The Mid and Post-Tribulation Rapture is more consistent with God’s wrath. If husbands are to love their wives the way Jesus loves the Church, why would we believe He will let the Church go through the Tribulation Period (Eph. 5:25).

[Maybe your understanding of the nature of God is flawed.]

31) If the Rapture takes place at the end of the Tribulation Period, and all the wicked are removed from the earth at that time (Matt. 13:24-30, 47-50; 25:41), no one will be left to re-populate the earth during the Millennium. If all of the saved are Raptured and all the lost are removed from the earth at the end of the Tribulation Period, no one will be left to re-populate the earth.

[Maybe your concept of the Millennium is flawed.]

32) The Antichrist will prevail against the saints during the Tribulation Period, but the gates of hell won’t prevail against the Church (Rev. 13:7; Matt. 16:18). Therefore, the Church won’t go through the Tribulation Period.

[The gates of sheol have to do with the grave permenantly holding believers after they die. You’re conflating the two categories.]

33) The twenty-four elders (representatives of the Church) will be in heaven before the seven-sealed scroll is broken (Rev. 4:4; 6:1-17).

[That’s purely made up.]

34) Jesus was talking about the Tribulation Period when He said, “Pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass” (Luke 21:36). He didn’t say, “Pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to endure some or all of these things that shall come to pass.”

[Escape doesn’t mean beamed out. History records that the people who followed Jesus’ directions escaped the sacking of Jerusalem.]

35) There are no signs of the Rapture, but if the Rapture takes place during the Tribulation Period, it would have to be after the seven-year covenant is signed by the Antichrist and perhaps after several other things, depending upon what a person believes about Mid-Trib, Post-Trib, etc.

[This is purely made up. But, more importantly, if there are no signs before the rapture then staring at the news paper to anticipate when it is going to happen is complete waste of time.]

36) Jesus said, “When these things (the signs) begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads for your redemption draweth nigh” (Luke 21:28). He didn’t say, “After all these things have happened, your redemption draweth nigh.” He said, “When these things begin to come to pass, it’s close.”

[Right. When the Romans surround Jerusalem their redemption was near.]

37) The Church won’t go through the Tribulation Period because God intends to use the 144,000 children of Israel, the Two Witnesses, and an angel to preach the gospel during the Tribulation Period. He wouldn’t need or use Jews or an angel to preach the gospel if the Church was here.

[Your claimed role of the 144,000 is completely made up.]

38) We are ambassadors for Christ (2 Cor. 5:20), and ambassadors are called home before war breaks out (before the Tribulation Period).

[You’re making that up.]

39) Daniel was a type of the Church and not present when Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego (Jews; types of Israel) are in the fiery furnace (type of Tribulation Period).

[You’re making that up.]

40) If Jesus is already headed down to earth at the end of the Tribulation Period, there is no reason why we would need to be caught up to meet Him in the air.

[You are assuming he is physically headed down to earth. You’re going to have to make an argument for that.]

41) If the post-Trib Rapture is true, those that are left behind after the Rapture will not need to hear the gospel from the 144,000, etc., because they will immediately be removed from the earth and cast into outer darkness.

[Right. That’s because your role for the 144,000 is completely contrived.]

42) If the post-Trib Rapture is true, and the Church is on earth during the Tribulation Period, but God uses the 144,000 Jewish evangelists, etc., instead of the Church, then the Church has rejected Jesus, or He has rejected the Church.

[see above]

43) The Tribulation Period is meant for the redemption of Israel (Dan. 9:24), not for the redemption of the Church (Jesus redeemed the Church by His death on the cross (1 Pet. 1:18-19).

[The split you are causing between the two explicitly contradicts Ephesians 2.]

44) There is nothing unusual about Jesus keeping the Church out of the Tribulation Period. He has a history of protecting His people from tribulation on special occasions. He protected the Hebrews from the Ten Plagues, Noah and his family from the Flood, and Lot from Sodom and Gomorrah. He will seal and protect the 144,000 during the Tribulation Period, and He will protect the Jews in Judea that flee into the wilderness during the last half of the Tribulation Period. There is no reason to believe He won’t protect the Church.

[Protection does not require beaming out.]

45) The timing of the Rapture should be based on Scripture, not what others believed many years ago unless they backed it up with Scripture.

[I don’t think your position is backed by scripture very well.]

Apostasia is “defection” or “to apostasize”. Never in the New Testament is it used for “Departing” or “leaving”. Look it up

I am trained in Greek. Your changing of the scripture is incorrect. Your change of the scripture changes the entire meaning of the verse…

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a apostasia (defection, apostasy) ~~departing~~ first, and that that man of sin be disclosed, even the son of perdition.

I’m not nervous at all. We aren’t in the tribulation. God isn’t going to allow his people to suffer. That makes no sense.

Your arguments against the rapture are weak. Saying things like, that is made up proves nothing.

Oh, I HAVE 'looked it up'. You are aware that verbs and nouns are closely associated. The word apostasia is a combination of the Greek preposition 'apos' and the Greek verb 'histemi'. The word is found being used as a berb fifteen times in the New Testament as 'aphistemi'. There is a reason the first several GHreek to English translations used departure.

You are trying to make apopstasia into a technical word.. It is not a technical word, meaning it can have more than one meaning based on context. Of the fifteen times aphistemi/aphistemai is found inthe new Testament twelve times it refers to a physical departing and three times to a spiritual departing. Our modern word ap[ostasy is a technical word always meaning a spiritual departure. In the Greek the word Translated in 12 Thess 2:3 is not a technical word.

Luther offers the best explanation in his Small Catechism:

Thy kingdom come.

What does this mean?

— Answer.

The kingdom of God comes indeed without our prayer, of itself; but we pray in this petition that it may come unto us also.

How is this done?

— Answer.

When our heavenly Father gives us His Holy Spirit, so that by His grace we believe His holy Word and lead a godly life here in time and yonder in eternity.