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To: Cronos; GMThrust; spacejunkie2001
The Olivet discourse then talks about the 8 signs that Jesus said would lead to the Temple's destruction that were important for the Apostles to recognize..false messiahs...Wars...famines ...earthquakes ...persecution ....Apostasy ..............

All of which above are historical constants as precursors awaiting a final fulfillment with many things on the earth that Revelation foretells occurring have not happened. Including,

And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all. And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. (Revelation 18:21-23)

And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. (Revelation 20:1-3)

Sign 7 - the gospel worldwide. What did Paul say in Rom 1:8? First, I give thanks[f] to my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is heralded throughout the world and in Col 1:5-6 First, I give thanks[f] to my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is heralded throughout the world in .. -- the word used for "world" is oikoumene - which specifically means the civilized world i.e. the Roman Empire - the Olivet discourse does not use the world "Kosmos" that designates the entire earth.

Wrong. The word in Rom 1:8 and Col 1:6 is actually Kosmos and which can refer to the whole world, starting from its first occurrence. (Matthew 4:8)

Sign 8: Daniel's desolating sacrilege. Matt 24:15-19. Note that the Sanhedrin believed that this had been fulfilled in 167 BC, but that did not meet Daniel's prophecy of 3.5 years

Neither did the destruction of the temple in 70 A.D. Daniel's prophecy of 3.5 years in Daniel 9:26 is understood as after the completion of the 483 years, “the Messiah One will be cut off” and fulfilled when Jesus was crucified 3.5 years later in 31AD. However, while in 167 B.C. Antiochus erected a statue of the Greek god Zeus in the Jerusalem temple and offered swine, biblically unclean animals, be offered on the temple, apparently fulfilling Daniel 11:31, yet this was a precursor of the final fulfillment yet to come, for while 70 A.D. resulted in the destruction of the temple yet it did not fulfill "the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place."

Instead - and also contrary to the pre-Trib. rapture, what must first occur is,

Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. (2 Thessalonians 2:1-4)

"the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ" and "our gathering together unto him" and "the day of Christ" and "that day" all refer to the same thing, and which awaits the manifestation of the Anti-Christ siting in the temple of God as if himself is God. Some popes have come close to presuming that though.

The Church was close to being smothered in its cradle if Nero continued and the Jerusalem Christians had not escaped to Pella - this was a tiny community, primarily Jewish and was attacked by both the Roman authorities AND the Jewish authorities. That WAS the great tribulation

Absurd and certainly anticlimactic in the light of the worldwide events in Revelation. Maybe you believe in a local Flood as well. But at least you concur with most Calvinists on one thing.

THEN, in Matt 24:29 And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be moved - This is apocalyptic language exactly referring to Isaiah 13:10-13

And as with other prophecies there are precursors to the final fulfillment.

The clouds - As in Daniel, the Son of Man is coming towards the Ancient of Days (The Father) not to earth. The "clouds on Heaven" symbolize the majesty and glory of the Son when He judges his enemies

Actually this refers to the Son coming in literals clouds of heaven in a literal future return when all the tribes of the earth mourn and shall see the Son of man :

And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. (Acts 1:10-11)

I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. (Daniel 7:13) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (Matthew 24:30) Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. (Revelation 1:7-8)

The mourning - Matt 24:30 - "all the tribes of the earth - the Greek word used here is ge namely land. So all the tribes in the land

Wrong and careless again: Even a curosry search would show you that the Greek word gē refers to all the earth even in v. 35: "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away." (Matthew 24:35) As in such places as, "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." (Matthew 5:18) "Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven." (Matthew 6:10) "All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth." (Matthew 28:18) And multitudes more. And tribes means races.

the four winds - He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, form one end of Heaven to the other" - Matt 24:31. This four winds is reflected in Dan 11:4 - meaning "scattered everywhere" - and Jesus refers in particular Exek 37:9-10 - and in this jesus predicts the revitalization and reunification of the Jesus-movement the young Christian Church

Wrong again: Rather than the beginning of the Jesus-movement in the young Christian Church this is part of a discourse on "then shall the end come" (Matthew 24:14) in judgment. Thus "if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 24:48-51) Such await a final fulfillment which precursors point to.

75 posted on 02/01/2021 6:45:09 AM PST by daniel1212 (Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned + destitute sinner + trust Him to save + be baptized+follow Him!)
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To: daniel1212

The destruction of the temple isn’t “a historical constant” rather an actuality that happened in 70 ad

Jesus prophesied that and that was the Olivet discourse.

The fulfilment of that prophecy was a major impetus pushing the Jesus movement sect of Judaism to dominate Judaism and beyond. This was the formation of the church


81 posted on 02/01/2021 7:24:12 AM PST by Cronos
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