Posted on 10/26/2020 6:10:50 AM PDT by Cronos
So you admit Mary wasn't born perfect and she needed a Savior...Like the rest of us...
If you aren’t going to read what I wrote, or read what I was responding to, what is the point of this conversation?
This is what she says - if you say "God has not entered her soul because I say so" - why would you make a judgement call, when you yourself don't agree with the Trinity
And what you responded to
Today, Joel asks evangelicals to "give Mary a chance." Asked to expound on what he means by "give her a chance,” he elaborated: "Revere her in a way you haven't before because she provided the Savior." "And there is a reason that she has been venerated since the beginning of the church and I don't fully understand her role and it's uncomfortable to ask for her intercessions at times, but at the same time, she is the one praying and interceding on behalf of all of us to her Son. And it is through her prayers that most of us come to know Him." "I grew up my whole just thinking that Mary was just some random chick that just happened to be there at the right time and right place and it's just not so. The history of the church has put her in a place where she should be and if evangelicals could give her a chance, it might open up their world to her." Stephanie interjected, "Our salvation is not possible without her. And He chose to make it that way."- and in that what you were responding to, there is nowhere said that "she is the source of salvation"
So the spiritual realm didn't intersect with their Baptist reality...We can easily conclude then that their spiritual realm doesn't exist with their Orthodox/Catholic reality...That's great...Non spiritual religionists...
“you say that people who are baptised into the Southern Baptist “do not have a lot of familiarity with scripture”? Isn’t that what SBCs pride themselves on?”
Someone can come forward, make a profession of belief, be baptized....and then not come back. We don’t require someone spend years demonstrating their repentance before baptizing. Nor was that done in the New Testament.
That doesn’t mean everyone truly believes. Some won’t even ATTEND a church again. That is between them and God. But a saving faith is one that results in a changed life.
I’ve never been in a baptist church where the Bible is not preached. They may exist, but I’ve yet to see one. Every sermon. Also Sunday School and often home Bible studies. But again...someone can CLAIM to be a baptist and not have been in a baptist church at all. Or go for a year and decide to turn away.....
” “Consider the sower who went out to sow. 4 As he sowed, some seed fell along the path, and the birds came and devoured them. 5 Other seed fell on rocky ground where it didn’t have much soil, and it grew up quickly since the soil wasn’t deep. 6 But when the sun came up, it was scorched, and since it had no root, it withered away. 7 Other seed fell among thorns, and the thorns came up and choked it. 8 Still other seed fell on good ground and produced fruit: some a hundred, some sixty, and some thirty times what was sown. 9 Let anyone who has ears[a] listen.”....
...18 “So listen to the parable of the sower: 19 When anyone hears the word about the kingdom and doesn’t understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is the one sown along the path. 20 And the one sown on rocky ground—this is one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy. 21 But he has no root and is short-lived. When distress or persecution comes because of the word, immediately he falls away. 22 Now the one sown among the thorns—this is one who hears the word, but the worries of this age and the deceitfulness[c] of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful. 23 But the one sown on the good ground—this is one who hears and understands the word, who does produce fruit and yields: some a hundred, some sixty, some thirty times what was sown.” - Matthew 13
“Stephanie interjected, “Our salvation is not possible without her. And He chose to make it that way.”
Ummm....God was capable of finding a vessel. He chose Mary, but that doesn’t mean salvation for the world depended on Mary. It depended totally on GOD.
Seeming to and doing so are too different things. I like Baptists, and I like Orthdoxy. Many flavors, but many sour notes that are un Biblical.
Baptists, all law, no love.
Orthodoxy, gorgeous worship, some of the wrong things.
All are within God’s family in general, but each person stands before God as an individual. Best to see to your personal faith with personal study. A second hand faith is a shake relationship with the One who counts.
Save Thy people, O Lord,
and bless Thine inheritance.
Grant victory to Thy Church over her enemies,
and protect Thy people by Thy Holy Cross!
They obviously didn't believe...
The Catholic and Orthodox churches both have said from the beginning that Mary needed a savior, that her Son is/was her savior. How could she be sinless without a savior? The problem that comes up here is how everyone thinks about the salvific power of God as running along our cosmic timeline. It doesn’t. God exists outside of time, Mary was saved by her Son's sacrifice, her Son, who is God
The "splendor of an entirely unique holiness" by which Mary is "enriched from the first instant of her conception" comes wholly from Christ: she is "redeemed, in a more exalted fashion, by reason of the merits of her Son".
Mary, though considered unique among saints, was still created by God, by her Son
In short, Mary needed a savior, like all created things, but she received her salvation through the merits of her Son, before time.
btw, do you believe in the Trinity now? Or still the anti-Trinitarian modalist view?
“ you say that people who are baptised into the Southern Baptist ”
Depends entirely on the local church.
Some are fantastic.
“ The principle in the context of the quote
Again, spiritual truth is spiritually discerned and from your posting, it doesn’t sound like you are saved nor have assurance of salvation.
If true, you are just floundering around.
Best
Stephanie doesn’t say that “salvation depended on her” — you wrote that. She says “it’s not possible without her and He chose to make it that way” - now that is open to interpretation - the “He chose to make it that way” can mean that Stephanie believes that God chose to make salvation through that method through the, let’s call it “Mary method”. Of course God could have chosen another way, but the Mary way was where God gave Mary the free will to chose
Spiritual truth is completely lacking in your posts, amPU - if you take pure excerpts out of the chapter context as a mish-mash, jigsaw, faith system, it is no wonder that you argue with a complete Christ-centered belief system that is orthodoxy.
The spiritual truth is spiritually discerned and from your posting, it doesn’t sound like you are saved because you reject Christ’s teachings in favor of verses out of context and relying on you being quick to judge based on no spiritual discernment
That's a convention idea that is riddled with varying interpretation. If we think God chose Mary, by happenstance, being just another sinful Jewish girl who would say yes to a baby out of wedlock .... then her need for a Savior is logical. But context of all Marian Scripture needs to be understood...
... And he came to her and said, “Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you!”....
...“Do not be afraid, Mary, for YOU have found favor with God...
...“The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born[d] will be called holy, the Son of God. (And ONLY God can create this for Mary)
... and culminates into the moment Mary begins Christ mission, daringly interceding for the wedding guests by saying - Whatsoever he shall say to you, do ye.
This stumbling block has the same causality as the Christian turned atheist who will tell you that Christ too was a sinner and indeed needed to be Baptized for his sinfulness - as ALL fall short, and are sinners.. yada yada.
Well If that's where the Christian logic takes us. then we need to get off that train now...
Sorry Cronos, but I’m saved and have assurance - and the blessed Spirit indwelling me.
Not really any point in discussing Scripture with you...
I do wish you salvation and every consequent blessing.
This article is really sad, and also ridiculous.
This couple apparently found God’s Word too much for them, and didn’t really want to take it to heart and learn of it because everything they say they didn’t find in evangelicalism is there. For example, this:
“The most transformative aspect of this whole thing for me has been to see suffering not as something that God — I used to think ‘why does God allow this, I did all these things right, this stuff keeps happening, I can’t handle it.’ And then you hear of other people who have horrible thing after horrible thing happen,” Stephanie said.
“But within Orthodoxy, suffering is seen as a tool, she explained.”
It’s very clear in God’s Word that He has purposes for our suffering, IF we have the faith to believe it and don’t “love our lives (here) unto the death” (Revelation 12:11). How many saints suffered in the Bible?! Joseph being sold into slavery and imprisoned on false charges comes to mind immediately, as does JOB, and David, and that’s just in the Old Testament. The New Testament disciples us on suffering for the Lord’s sake as a major lesson. And oftentimes, the suffering of the saints isn’t even “natural” suffering, but suffering for spiritual reasons, strictly for one’s faith in God and witness for Christ, as in the death of Stephen.
“For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.” Romans 8:18
“And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.” Romans 8:28
“In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.” 1 Thessalonians 5:18
“And to him they agreed: and when they had called the apostles, and beaten them, they commanded that they should not speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go. And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.” Acts 5:40-41
“These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.” John 16:33
And here are ONE HUNDRED verses on suffering from the Bible:
https://www.openbible.info/topics/suffering
Some Christian churches have had the Gospel all along, but in the pre-printing press era, when illiteracy was widespread, their leaders moved away from actually mentoring their flocks on God’s Word (teaching it to them and having them memorize it, which would have been entirely possible).
Jesus tells the parable of different soils, and the Bible also talks about moving on from spiritual milk to meat. And as Paul said, too, there is an upward call from God that we must respond to.
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