Posted on 10/04/2020 12:03:57 AM PDT by tired&retired
I haven’t heard about such persons that you would wish as part of a control group in terms of understanding NDE’s. There do seem to be cases though of living persons who never knew the gospel being introduced to it by angels
or even Christ himself. One such person who was a Muslim, I think in Syria, who received a nightly visitor who told him to transcribe words he would give him into a notebook. The Syrian in question stated there was something very compelling about the personality of his visitor who came to see him over a week or so. He was told to see a certain foreign person known to be a believer and present to him the notebook. It was the gospel of John when the translation was done. The Muslim in question had never been exposed to Christianity(though he was certainly one after that whole experience).
A personal friend and Gideon in NY state tells me of story of a murderer imprisoned at Rykers who was illiterate and thought to be semi retarded who was known to be violent and explosive. In solitary he began receiving a nightly visitor that he called “the dude”. He was taught by this visitor to read entirely from the Bible(a Gideon Bible; how it got into solitary no one knew) that officials stated seemed to have appeared out of no where as well. The behavior of the prisoner changed as well and he was no longer violent and explosive and in need of meds. The prisoner had changed so much that he was allowed under certain conditions to tell his story to various groups in and around NY City. He’d tell his story about “the dude” and how he learned to read, how he came every night to his cell, about how the guards had never seen the dude but they they knew something remarkable was happening with this prisoner. The prisoner would then finish his testimony and on his own, return back to the prison on his own recognizance. He was questioned by various folks about this “visitor” but the prisoner would only refer to the visitor as “the dude”! This was a direct work of God leaving the prisoner literate, and saved.
I do believe there may be authenticity of NDE’s of those that after they had had one, were noted to have become converted to Christ and were leading lives or repentance afterword. Some said they saw hell even but Christ had met with them on the brink and they were saved “by the skin of their teeth”. Such stories convince me of the truth of the verse...”He was not willing that any should perish but have everlasting life!”
But I do concur(I suppose not that such concurrence matters to you, and not trying to be snarky, just accepting my own low status in life) that a control study of those who had never heard the gospel should be done of the NDE’s that are reported in that group.
God doesn’t like unjust weights and measures....he wants us to weigh what is observed as truth against that which might be observed as false. If there are no recorded accounts of NDE’s that mention Christ from a group of folks never exposed to Christ would tell us that NDE’s may be personal to only our individual experiences, being also culturally colored during our fading perceptions upon the twilight of our lives.
No recorded NDE’s from a culture that doesn’t have Christian influences that do have a Christ component in them would tell us that NDE’s are a real thing after all and they would tell us of the work of the Holy Spirit even in societies closed to God’s open works.
Oh I don’t disagree with that and obviously David was not allowed or required to die in that same way. There was recorded only his expression of his willingness to die if it meant that that God would stay such a plague. He could even see the angel of the Lord with his arm outstretched.
In some ways the martyrdom of Stephen is closer to what I meant. He loved not his own life unto death so that the gospel might be preached and souls saved. There is a point where a willingness to “ go all in” in terms of passion and faith that God respects and will act upon at times. The boys Shadrach, Meschak, and Abednigo were willing to go all in and went into the fiery furnace but were saved from it.
I was speaking of a totally heartfelt brokenness before God, a willingness to be entirely unmade so that the souls of men might be saved! It is the only thing recorded in the Bible and in certain points is history that prompt massive moves of the Spirit! Jonah was humbled and broken though somewhat unwillingly on his part and Nineveh was saved for a generation or two as the entire city repented before God.(But no he wasn’t actually killed or made to self sacrifice in the way my previous posting might have been perceived to have been suggesting. He was disciplined though).
The pastors in post 36 are all deliverance ministers, and cast out devils/demons/evil or unclean spirits from Christians as a regular part of their ministry from the time God called them into same until their deaths - Micah Bell of KeyMinistries in Dallas is still alive and still actively pastoring his church and teaching and providing Biblical deliverance (the casting out of evil spirits).
He and his staff helpful in my own deliverance.
Here are YT videos of the pastors in question, all of whom practised the ministry of deliverance and also wrote books about the subject:
Pastor Win Worley Title: 1016: Breaking Demonic Yokes
1982 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcJ6M_QDnpk
Pastor Derek Prince Title: How Demons Come In How to Get Them Out - Part 1 by Derek Prince
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifMlbhJSzWU
Pastor Frank Hammond The Schizophrenia Revelation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRKx0B1NbDc
Pastor Micah Stephen Bell: Deliverance Talk Channel
Deliverance Talk 101 (shortest vid at 11 minutes, a good place to start) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=229AWOETxKU
Remember, Paul spoke of his personal demon. While they may not move in when you are filled with the Holy Spirit, they forever follow you and constantly seek an opening to move in and torment.
Remember, Paul spoke of his personal demon. While they may not move in when you are filled with the Holy Spirit, they forever follow you and constantly seek an opening to move in and torment.
Thank you for the excellent comment.
Throughout the entire Old Testament, "bene elohim" means only one thing: angels.
The Sons of Seth hypothesis is nothing more than a weak modern literary contortion developed to deal with the uncomfortable story of fallen angels mating with human women.
BTW, the ancient Hebrew stories are mirrored in other cultures of the same era. Ancient Sumerian and Mesopotamian stories line up with the Hebrew Book of Genesis (albeit with different protagonists) as do stories from ancient China and India.
All this said, what you want to believe is your business.
Yep. I claim a demon did it. Or tiredness.
Well; Old Joe NEVER used his method; as far as documentation can show.
When there's one with a REAL death experience; I'll listen.
Indeed there are; and I'm glad you acknowledge them.
Here are the one's I've found...
Psalm 13:3
Look on me and answer, Lord my God. Give light to my eyes, or I will sleep in death,Psalm 90:5
Yet you sweep people away in the sleep of death— they are like the new grass of the morning:Daniel 12:2
Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.
John 11:12-13
His disciples replied, “Lord, if he sleeps, he will get better.”
Jesus had been speaking of his death, but his disciples thought he meant natural sleep.
1 Corinthians 15:51-52
Listen, I tell you a mystery:We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet.For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
Ephesians 5:14
This is why it is said: “Wake up, sleeper, rise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you.”
1 Thessalonians 4:13
Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope.
Clarification:”No recorded NDE’s from a culture that doesn’t have Christian influences that do have a Christ component in them would tell us that NDE’s are a real thing after all and they would tell us of the work of the Holy Spirit even in societies closed to God’s open works.”
Should read as:”Let’s say we do a study NDE’s from a society that has had little or no Christian impact and is hostile to Christ and that there have been several generations born not exposed to the gospel(like North Korea). If we record a number of NDE experiences where the person has encountered Christ and has come back changed and converted from the experience; then we know that NDE’s may be a real thing revealing the work of the Holy Spirit in such a society that is otherwise closed to Christ.
My issue is with those who claim ALL Christians go to Heaven at death; while also claiming that ‘the dead in Christ’ will rise at the Rapture.
Yup; all KINDS of stuff have come down from various pulp[its from time to time.
It didn't take long to get started; either; if one can believe the first three chapters of Revelation.
HMMMmmm...
I'll bet you're always square in your dealing with your fellow man.!
But; how many angles are there on the head of a pin?
Oh?
Then what logical reason is there for having graves opening and old, rotten flesh ascending?
Therefore there is evident for this claim; right?
You believe that aborted fetus’ are lost?
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