88 REASONS Why The Rapture Will Be In 1988 {End Times}

scribd.com ^ | 1988 | Edgar C Whisenat

[daniel1212]

Daniel that faith and works go together, and thus to be 'not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul" (Hebrews 10:39) is to "keep my works unto the end." (Revelation 2:26) -- so then you hold to the Catholic concept since 33 AD of justification. Good for you

Which is simply an extension of what I already stated, that "Scripture clearly teaches that one can known that they presently possess eternal life, (1 Jn. 5:13) being made "accepted in the Beloved" (Eph. 1:6) on Christ's account, living effectual Abrahamic-type faith being counted for righteousness, (Rm. 4:5) Which does not mean that one cannot fall away..."

[daniel1212]

With the Lutherans you fundamentally disagree on what is necessary for salvation when you deny the True Presence in the Eucharist.

Lutheranism as a whole does not hold that those who do not believe in its theology on the Lord's supper are damned, nor does your modern church since it broadly affirms properly baptized Bible Prots as Christians, while your desperate attempt to list divisions among Prots remains vain in seeking to refute my documented statement that "Catholics overall testify to far less unified in polled core beliefs than those who most strongly esteem Scripture as the accurate and wholly inspired word of God."

Thus your reading your interpretation of Lumen Gentium 16 means that you are once again exampling division in Catholicism and reading it into Lutheranism.

[daniel1212]

You don’t consider your fellowship to be the only true one or you don’t consider your fellowship to be even true?

What is wrong with your reading comprehension? Some how "I do not consider our fellowship to be only one true one" means it is not a true one? Yet I described what those in the one true believe, as we do? Why should I attempt to reason with one whose Catholic firewall results in cognitive dissonance?

And what fellowship? You fundamentally disagree with Lutherans, with Mennonites, with Oneness Pentecostals, with Adventists, etc. At the core, the fellowship you speak of is just you, right?

What is wrong with your reading comprehension? Remember how a requirement of comprehensive doctrinal unity would also disallow you from being in fellowship, while agreement in our (plural) fellowship is broader and stronger than that of Catholicism.

[Elsie]

- I reject the idea of "soul sleep".

Daniel seems to disagree

---

Daniel 12:2
Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

[boatbums]

Again, it is talking about our physical bodies and not our souls/spirits.

From https://reasonsforhopejesus.com/soul-sleep/:

Soul sleep is the term used to describe a teaching about the condition of the soul after death. Before going any further, let me say that this is a false teaching. It’s one that is not often spoken about, but it is important that we understand both the teachings and the errors on soul sleep.

The doctrine of soul sleep claims that the soul literally sleeps until the time of the bodily resurrection when it is awakened. During this time the person is not conscious and has no awareness of their condition or state. This teaching also claims that the soul resides in the memory of God until its awakening. Seventh Day Adventists teach this doctrine, but it is a completely false teaching with absolutely no biblical support. And, there is a great deal of biblical information to prove it false.

Jehovah’s Witnesses teach a variation of this doctrine called annihilation, which claims the body and soul cease to exist at death. This teaching is similar to the Seventh Day Adventists teaching of soul sleep, but different in that the soul lies in a state of death (not unconscious sleep) until it is made alive (not awakened) in the bodily resurrection. (Read about the death of a celebrity Jehovah’s Witness and information about how to witness to Jehovah’s Witnesses.)

Soul Sleep — A False Teaching

Both of these teachings are in grave error (pun intended). Although both the Seventh Day Adventists and the Jehovah’s Witnesses use Scripture to support their beliefs, they do so incorrectly. The apostle Peter spoke of such teachings coming from people who are unlearned and unstable and therefore they “twist the Scripture” (2 Peter 3:16) and make it say something that it does not teach. So, what Scripture do they “twist” and misinterpret?

Both Seventh Day Adventists and the Jehovah’s Witnesses use a verse from Ecclesiastes as the foundation for their doctrines. They take this verse out of context to support what they believe:

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 needs to be understood in the full context. These are “The words of the Preacher, the son of David, king in Jerusalem” (Ecclesiastes 1:1) and he is speaking from a human, or earthly, perspective about physical death. He is not making doctrinal statements about the condition of the soul after death. The soul is not physical, it is spiritual. The Preacher is not saying that the soul dies, nor is he saying that it enters into an unconscious state at death. He is speaking of a person’s earthly existence ceasing, the futility of earthly gain and the fleeting influence of the departed.

Our Souls After Death

So what does the Bible say about the eternal destiny of our souls? In the New Testament we find clear teachings about what happens to the soul at death. Paul, with full knowledge and understanding of redemption of sin by Christ’s death on the cross and eternal life made possible by His resurrection, speaks of our physical death and the resurrection of the soul:

2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Paul is certain that, when he dies, he will go and be with the Lord. He does not say, to be absent from the body, and to [someday in the future] be present with the Lord. He proclaims that the soul leaves the body and enters into the presence of the Lord immediately at death. Paul also says,

Philippians 1:23 For I am hard pressed between the two, having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better.

Paul’s Desire

If Paul had thought his soul would only be sleeping for the period of time from death to bodily resurrection, he would not have desired to die. His desire to die was based on a desire to go and be with Jesus. Based on his commitment to preaching the gospel, and his desire to have people come to know Jesus, Paul would have preferred to live and serve Christ than to have “slept” in the grave until Jesus’ return.

Paul spoke of his “desire to depart, and to be with Christ” right after he said, “For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.” (Philippians 1:21) When Paul said “to live is Christ” he was speaking of his purpose and meaning in life that came from knowing and serving Jesus. Therefore, “to die” would not have been gain if his soul were to sleep. But Paul said it “is gain” (verse 21), because he knew that at death he would go “to be with Christ” (verse 23) in Heaven.

There’s another precious teaching in this verse that cannot be passed by. Although it is not relative to our discussion of soul sleep, we must pause and make note of it.

Paul knew that while he remained here on earth, Christ was here with him. He said, “to live is Christ.” Christ is here on earth with every believer, through the power and presence of the Holy Spirit.

The Death of the Body

It’s important that we clearly understand what happens at death, not only to refute false teachings such as soul sleep and annihilation but also so we live with confidence of the joy we will enter into when we take our last breath and depart this world. We know from Genesis that Adam was created from the dust of the ground and both Genesis and Ecclesiastes tell that our bodies will return to the earth:

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and became a living soul.

Genesis 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Destiny of the Spirit for Man and Animal

Ecclesiastes 12:7 clearly tells that the spirit of man returns to God who gave it and Hebrews 9:27 tells us, “…it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment.” Whether it is an unregenerate spirit or a spirit made alive by the Holy Spirit, God will judge both at the time of death. Ecclesiastes 3:21 confirms this, “Who knows the spirit of man that goes upward, and the spirit of the beast that goes downward to the earth?”

The spirit of a beast (animal) goes into the ground, but man’s spirit goes to God (Ecclesiastes 3:21) for judgment (Hebrews 9:27). Remember that man is an eternal being and all souls will live eternally after the bodily death. The question is not whether man will spend eternity somewhere, but rather where man will spend eternity.

Jesus’ Teaching Denies Soul Sleep

Jesus’ account of Lazarus and the rich man in Luke 16 further refutes the possibility of any truth in the doctrine of soul sleep. Both Lazarus and the rich man are bodily dead, but both men are fully aware of their condition and their location.

Luke 16:22 “So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’

But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’ Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’”

Both of these men had experienced physical death and their bodies had gone into the earth to return to dust. Yet the souls of both men lived on.

More Reasons to Deny Soul Sleep

There are many more verses that support our souls going to be with the Lord at the time of our physical death. We know that the body dies, so Jesus’ words of promise in these verses are regarding the soul:

John 11:25-26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die….”

It’s also clear in these verses from Revelation that souls do not sleep. Revelation 6:9-10 speaks of the martyrs in the end times and tells that their living souls are in Heaven and they are conscious.

Revelation 6:9-10 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”

Still another verse that confirms there is no soul sleep is Psalm 116:15. Why would the death of God’s saints be precious in His sight if souls slept in the grave? The soul lives on. And for Christians, we enter into the Lords presence at death.

Psa 116:15 Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints.

Finally, perhaps one of the best verses for the proof of conscious life of the soul following death is found in Luke 23:43, And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

Tell me not, in mournful numbers
Life is but an empty dream!
Dust thou art, to dust returnest,
Was not spoken of the soul.
―Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

[Elsie]

So; after all of that; just who are going to be judged at the GWT judgment?

[Mark17]

So; after all of that; just who are going to be judged at the GWT judgment?

The unsaved, maybe? 😁🤪

[boatbums]

Sure looks that way to me!

See https://davidjeremiah.blog/what-is-the-great-white-throne-judgment-in-revelation/

https://www.gotquestions.org/great-white-throne-judgment.html

https://www.compellingtruth.org/great-white-throne-judgment.html

When will the resurrection occur?

[Elsie]

 

Question: So; after all of that; just who are going to be judged at the GWT judgment?

Answers -

Mark17:    The unsaved, maybe? 😁🤪 
 boatbums:  Sure looks that way to me!

BB; I know you did a lot of looking up stuff for me; but have these verses stuck in my head and I just cannot override what they say to me:

 

Revelation 20:11-15
"Then I saw a great White Throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and THE BOOKS WERE OPENED. Another book was opened WHICH IS THE BOOK OF LIFE. The dead were judged according to their works as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to their works.  Then death and Hades were thrown into the Lake of Fire. The Lake of Fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written IN THE BOOK OF LIFE, he was thrown into the lake of fire."

 

The 'unsaved' are NOT found in the BoL, while the 'saved' are.

BOTH appear to be 'judged' there.

 

Revelation 21:27

Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

Answers -

Mark17:    The unsaved, maybe? 😁🤪 
 boatbums:  Sure looks that way to me!

[Mark17]

I have always thought, that those who appear at the great white throne judgment, are there, not to determine whether they are saved or lost, but to determine the amount punishment they will receive in the Lake of Fire 🔥
Naturally, I don’t know for sure, but it’s possible that they still may think they might make it into Heaven, since they appeal to their works. I suspect many of these people, belonged to the cults of our days. Can you imagine what a terrifying moment it will be, for billions, as God says He never knew them.
I can just imagine, as they descend into the flames, 🔥 and get their first taste of what the Lake of Fire is like, they are probably wondering, how on earth, am I going to endure this pain for all eternity?
Just my opinion, but I tend to think, that as eons and eons of eternity roll on, the agonies, suffered by those in the lake that burns, will affect them negatively. Their blasphemies against God will grow more and more intense, as they blame God for their suffering. It’s possible, the greater the blasphemy, the greater the agony, so possibly, their suffering in Hell, grows more and more intense. Who knows for sure?
I will say this, cult members, you have been warned. 👍

[boatbums]

The 'unsaved' are NOT found in the BoL, while the 'saved' are. BOTH appear to be 'judged' there.

Revelation 21:27 Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

Perhaps the Book of Life is opened as the PROOF that they were not saved? The Book of life/Lambs Book of Life sounds like all lives are written in it but only those who remain - are not blotted out - will be with God. Moses pleaded with God to blot his name out of the book rather than see Him not forgive the sins of the children of Israel (see Exodus 32:32). Then in Revelation 3:5 we learn, "Like them, the one who is victorious will be dressed in white. And I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but I will confess his name before My Father and His angels."

The "other book(s)" were opened to show the works of each one to be judged so they are the record of their life and all the works they had done whether good or evil. I believe there will be some kind of degree of hell - some have it worse than others based upon their whole life. I see the GWT Judgment being the ultimate judgment of the lost - everyone that remains unsaved at the end of the millennial reign of Christ. This would be all the lost who died prior to the Millennium as well as those who are born during the 1000 years who reject Christ. It's hard to imagine people will STILL reject Christ when He is present reigning in pure righteousness and justice, but there will be many. How many chances will humanity get???!!!

[Mark17]

This would be all the lost who died prior to the Millennium as well as those who are born during the 1000 years who reject Christ. It's hard to imagine people will STILL reject Christ when He is present reigning in pure righteousness and justice, but there will be many.

I tend to think every lost, unsaved person, that has ever lived, including many church members, will be standing tall, in front of God.
It is definitely, hard to imagine, that people born during the millennial kingdom, will refuse to be born anew from above. Utterly unbelievable. They will see him physically, hear him physically speak, know exactly who he is, the spotless Son of God, ruling the earth, with a rod of iron, and they STILL reject Him. Unbelievable, but they do.
Other issues, I wanted to ask your opinion on. I had heard that, obviously, there will be mortal people, who will physically survive the tribulation period, both true believers and also unbelievers. I had heard, and it’s quite probably wrong, that all the unbelievers, would be killed off, and only true, mortal believers, will be allowed to enter the millennial kingdom. They will do, what people do best, start making babies again. 😁
We all know what PTSD is. After having survived the worst period in history, can you imagine the PTSD the tribulation survivors will experience? I can’t help but feel, that only God can, and will have to treat the survivors, for PTSD. Make sense? 🤗😆

[Elsie]

All I know is what I read.

[Elsie]

See my answer above.

I hope that …

2 Corinthians 1:13
For we do not write you anything you cannot read or understand.

... is true.