Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: boatbums

The special ‘charism’ is based on actual words posted that many do not believe in all of God’s Revelations and reject many teachings of Jesus Christ. Many make false statements about the teachings of the Catholic faith and lead others astray. Many claim their personal false interpretation is the Truth of God without fully understanding the Words of Christ.

The Catholic teaching is that we receive sanctifying grace through our acceptance of God in Baptism by our faith in His revealed truths and by the Sacraments as we progress on our journey toward eternal life with God. Our good works in following God’s will shows our acceptance of our faith and love of God.

Catholics believe in salvation by grace alone, yet grace must not be resisted, either before justification (by remaining in unbelief) or after (by engaging in serious sin). (Serious sin includes making false statements about Catholic Church teaching) Read carefully 1 Corinthians 6, Galatians 5, and Ephesians 5.

Second, the Bible nowhere uses the expressions “justification by faith alone” or “salvation by faith alone.” The first was directly the invention of Luther; the second his by implication. Luther inserted “alone” into the German translation of Romans 3:28 to give credence to his new doctrine.

But your question deals with John 3:16. Yes, this passage does speak of the saving power of faith, but in no sense does it diminish the role of obedience to Christ in the process of getting to heaven.

In fact, it assumes it. Just as Fundamentalists overlook the rest of the chapter in connection with what being born of water and the Holy Spirit really means—they ignore the water part, which refers to baptism—they also overlook the context when interpreting Christ’s words about obtaining eternal life in John 3:16.

In John 3:36 we are told, “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever disobeys the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains upon him.”

This expands on John 3:16. It is another way of saying what Paul says in Romans 6:23: “The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

Although we cannot earn God’s unmerited favor by our good works, we can reject his love by our sins (that is, by our evil works) and thereby lose the eternal life he freely offers us in Christ.
https://www.catholic.com/qa/doesnt-john-316-clearly-indicate-that-faith-alone-is-necessary-for-salvation

I don’t believe that Jesus would encourage anyone to leave the Catholic faith that he established. There are many that see God’s Truth in the Catholic faith and some baptized Catholics no longer practice our Catholic faith. There is always hope that they will return and utilize the Sacrament of Reconciliation that restores our relationship with Christ. Fear can be a positive influence if it helps us do God’s will or it can make us chose the wrong or evil options.

The Catholic Catechism further states “Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or remain in it.” ccc846-847 Mk 16:16 John 3:

I am not trying to judge anyone, but I feel too many do not recognize their sins and the consequences of sin and rationalize that they have faith that will save them. I question man made faith that does not fully accept God’s Truth. I believe anyone that rejects their Catholic faith affects their salvation that requires repentance and confession.

Why does someone who doesn’t know if they will die in the state of grace rely on man made assurance of salvation instead of the Sacrament of Reconciliation that provides absolution from sins that was authorized by Jesus Christ?


361 posted on 08/14/2020 11:05:51 AM PDT by ADSUM
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 350 | View Replies ]


To: ADSUM

I see your imagination is full on today ...


362 posted on 08/14/2020 11:48:23 AM PDT by MHGinTN (A dispensation perspective is a powerful tool for discernment)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 361 | View Replies ]

To: ADSUM
Oh Adsum! There you go again - posting things never in Scripture.

The Catholic teaching is that we receive sanctifying grace through our acceptance of God in Baptism by our faith in His revealed truths and by the Sacraments as we progress on our journey toward eternal life with God.

Never in Scripture and made up from pagan origins. Yet you keep pushing it.

Catholics believe in salvation by grace alone, yet grace must not be resisted, either before justification (by remaining in unbelief) or after (by engaging in serious sin).

No, they do not, or they would be saved and have assurance of salvation. They do not.

DO YOU?

Second, the Bible nowhere uses the expressions “justification by faith alone” or “salvation by faith alone.” The first was directly the invention of Luther; the second his by implication. Luther inserted “alone” into the German translation of Romans 3:28 to give credence to his new doctrine.

Your post reflects little to nothing about translation, nor Scripture when you include things like this.

Do you read and write Greek and/or Hebrew??

Have you translated any books of Scripture?

But your question deals with John 3:16. Yes, this passage does speak of the saving power of faith, but in no sense does it diminish the role of obedience to Christ in the process of getting to heaven.

Ditto

I don’t believe that Jesus would encourage anyone to leave the Catholic faith that he established.

Because Christ didn't establish the Roman Catholic religion. Simple as that.

There is always hope that they will return and utilize the Sacrament of Reconciliation that restores our relationship with Christ.

No believer would ever trade assurance of salvation and personal relationship with Christ for a religion of pagan rituals and empty works and guilt.

No sale.

In John 3:36 we are told, “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever disobeys the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains upon him.”

And here is an example where knowing language and hermeneutics would give you insight you are not demonstrating in your post FRiend.

John 3:36 In conclusion, John placed the alternatives side by side. Belief in the Son of God results in eternal life (1:12; 3:3, 5, 15, 16), life fitted for eternity with God and enjoyed to a limited extent now. Unbelief results in God’s wrath remaining on the unbeliever and his or her not obtaining eternal life. John spoke of unbelief as disobedience (rejection, NIV) because when God offers salvation unbelief becomes disobedience.
Constable, T. (2003).

The Catholic Catechism further states “Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or remain in it.” ccc846-847 Mk 16:16 John 3:

Romanism and her false doctrines have no authority over any but those enslaved to it.

Believers are not under the authority of paganism. Worth noting.

I am not trying to judge anyone, but I feel too many do not recognize their sins and the consequences of sin and rationalize that they have faith that will save them. I question man made faith that does not fully accept God’s Truth. I believe anyone that rejects their Catholic faith affects their salvation that requires repentance and confession.

Thanks for sharing your (non-authoritative) feelings and opinions... but Scripture is an infinitely larger authority that comes direct from God.

Further, Scripture stands in opposition to your posted feelings, beliefs and questions.

Why does someone who doesn’t know if they will die in the state of grace rely on man made assurance of salvation instead of the Sacrament of Reconciliation that provides absolution from sins that was authorized by Jesus Christ?

Let's see... Their assurance of salvation comes directly from Christ and not a religion, there is no Biblical "sacrament of reconcilation" and there is no absolution of sins that doesn't come directly from Christ - no man can give it to another. Nor was this false sacrament authorized by Christ.

Best.

363 posted on 08/14/2020 12:07:34 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion (I'd rather be anecdotally alive than scientifically dead... f)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 361 | View Replies ]

To: ADSUM
Oh ADSUM, there you go again, making statements without offering any evidence for why we should believe them.


364 posted on 08/14/2020 12:27:03 PM PDT by Luircin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 361 | View Replies ]

To: ADSUM; caww; Iscool; MHGinTN; imardmd1; Tennessee Nana; Mom MD; boatbums; Luircin; metmom; ...
Second, the Bible nowhere uses the expressions “justification by faith alone” or “salvation by faith alone.” The first was directly the invention of Luther; the second his by implication. Luther inserted “alone” into the German translation of Romans 3:28 to give credence to his new doctrine.

..................................................

Totally false.

Perhaps you sincerely believe this and do not know it is false.

I am happy to take a moment to paste some information so you do not continue perpetuating this falsehood unknowingly FRiend.

The Roman Catholic writer Joseph A. Fitzmyer points out that Luther was not the only one to translate Romans 3:28 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)] with the word “alone.”

"At 3:28 Luther introduced the adv. “only” into his translation of Romans (1522), “alleyn durch den Glauben” (WAusg 7.38); cf. Aus der Bibel 1546, “alleine durch den Glauben” (WAusg, DB 7.39); also 7.3-27 (Pref. to the Epistle). See further his Sendbrief vom Dolmetschen, of 8 Sept. 1530 (WAusg 30.2 [1909], 627-49; “On Translating: An Open Letter” [LuthW 35.175-202]). Although “alleyn/alleine” finds no corresponding adverb in the Greek text, two of the points that Luther made in his defense of the added adverb were that it was demanded by the context and that sola was used in the theological tradition before him.

Robert Bellarmine listed eight earlier authors who used sola (Disputatio de controversiis: De justificatione 1.25 [Naples: G. Giuliano, 1856], 4.501-3):

Origen, Commentarius in Ep. ad Romanos, cap. 3 (PG 14.952).

Hilary, Commentarius in Matthaeum 8:6 (PL 9.961).

Basil, Hom. de humilitate 20.3 (PG 31.529C).

Ambrosiaster, In Ep. ad Romanos 3.24 (CSEL 81.1.119): “sola fide justificati sunt dono Dei,” through faith alone they have been justified by a gift of God; 4.5 (CSEL 81.1.130).

John Chrysostom, Hom. in Ep. ad Titum 3.3 (PG 62.679 [not in Greek text]).

Cyril of Alexandria, In Joannis Evangelium 10.15.7 (PG 74.368 [but alludes to Jas 2:19 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)] ]).

Bernard, In Canticum serm. 22.8 (PL 183.881): “solam justificatur per fidem,” is justified by faith alone.

Theophylact, Expositio in ep. ad Galatas 3.12-13 (PG 124.988).

...............

To these eight Lyonnet added two others (Quaestiones, 114-18):

Theodoret, Affectionum curatio 7 (PG 93.100; ed. J. Raeder [Teubner], 189.20-24).

Thomas Aquinas, Expositio in Ep. I ad Timotheum cap. 1, lect. 3 (Parma ed., 13.588): “Non est ergo in eis [moralibus et caeremonialibus legis] spes iustificationis, sed in sola fide, Rom. 3:28 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)] : Arbitramur justificari hominem per fidem, sine operibus legis” (Therefore the hope of justification is not found in them [the moral and ceremonial requirements of the law], but in faith alone, Rom 3:28 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)] : We consider a human being to be justified by faith, without the works of the law). Cf. In ep. ad Romanos 4.1 (Parma ed., 13.42a): “reputabitur fides eius, scilicet sola sine operibus exterioribus, ad iustitiam”; In ep. ad Galatas 2.4 (Parma ed., 13.397b): “solum ex fide Christi” [Opera 20.437, b41]).

See further: Theodore of Mopsuestia, In ep. ad Galatas (ed. H. B. Swete), 1.31.15.

Marius Victorinus (ep. Pauli ad Galatas (ed. A. Locher), ad 2.15-16: “Ipsa enim fides sola iustificationem dat-et sanctificationem” (For faith itself alone gives justification and sanctification); In ep. Pauli Ephesios (ed. A. Locher), ad 2.15: “Sed sola fides in Christum nobis salus est” (But only faith in Christ is salvation for us).

Augustine, De fide et operibus, 22.40 (CSEL 41.84-85): “licet recte dici possit ad solam fidem pertinere dei mandata, si non mortua, sed viva illa intellegatur fides, quae per dilectionem operatur” (Although it can be said that God’s commandments pertain to faith alone, if it is not dead [faith], but rather understood as that live faith, which works through love”). Migne Latin Text: Venire quippe debet etiam illud in mentem, quod scriptum est, In hoc cognoscimus eum, si mandata ejus servemus. Qui dicit, Quia cognovi eum, et mandata ejus non servat, mendax est, et in hoc veritas non est (I Joan. II, 3, 4). Et ne quisquam existimet mandata ejus ad solam fidem pertinere: quanquam dicere hoc nullus est ausus, praesertim quia mandata dixit, quae ne multitudine cogitationem spargerent [Note: [Col. 0223] Sic Mss. Editi vero, cogitationes parerent.], In illis duobus tota Lex pendet et Prophetae (Matth. XXII, 40): licet recte dici possit ad solam fidem pertinere Dei mandata, si non mortua, sed viva illa intelligatur fides, quae per dilectionem operatur; tamen postea Joannes ipse aperuit quid diceret, cum ait: Hoc est mandatum ejus, ut credamus nomini Filii ejus Jesu Christi, et diligamns invicem (I Joan. III, 23) See De fide et operibus, Cap. XXII, §40, PL 40:223.

Source: Joseph A. Fitzmyer Romans, A New Translation with introduction and Commentary, The Anchor Bible Series (New York: Doubleday, 1993) 360-361.

................

Even some Catholic versions of the New Testament also translated Romans 3:28 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)] as did Luther. The Nuremberg Bible (1483), “nur durch den glauben” and the Italian Bibles of Geneva (1476) and of Venice (1538) say “per sola fede.” [source]

More at the link: https://beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com/2006/02/luther-added-word-alone-to-romans-328.html

365 posted on 08/14/2020 5:41:12 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion (I'd rather be anecdotally alive than scientifically dead... f)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 361 | View Replies ]

To: ADSUM; MHGinTN; aMorePerfectUnion; metmom; boatbums
I am not trying to judge anyone

Thanks for not judging me, when I say I have assurance of salvation. It’s a beautiful thing. You should try it. You will like it. If you don’t have it, why don’t you have it? I have to admit, when I was in the Catholic Church, I never had ANY assurance of anything. Once I left, I got my assurance. You can do it, unless you simply don’t want it. 🤗

367 posted on 08/14/2020 6:34:03 PM PDT by Mark17 (USAF Retired. Father of a US Air Force commissioned officer, and trained Air Force combat pilot.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 361 | View Replies ]

To: ADSUM
Second, the Bible nowhere uses the expressions “justification by faith alone” or “salvation by faith alone.”

Oh, you mean OTHER than:

    Romans 5:1
    Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, ...

    Galatians 3:24
    So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. ...

    Romans 3:28
    For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

    Galatians 2:16
    So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

    Galatians 3:11
    Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because "the righteous will live by faith." ...


368 posted on 08/14/2020 6:42:39 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 361 | View Replies ]

To: ADSUM
So then, by that reasoning, (because a specific word or phrase is not found written down in Scripture it's not Scriptural), the Bible must not be “scriptural” and the Holy Trinity must not "scriptural".

Then that must mean that these things are not Scriptural either.

trinity

catholic

pope

eucharist

sacraments

annulment

assumption

immaculate conception

mass

purgatory

magisterium

infallible

confirmation

crucifix

rosary

mortal sin

venial sin

perpetual virginity

indulgences

hyperdulia

catechism

real presence

transubstantiation

liturgy

free will

holy water

monstrance

sacred tradition

apostolic succession

Benefactress

Mediatrix

Queen of Heaven

Mother of God

beatific vision

invincible ignorance

Divine Office

guardian angel

Corporal Works of Mercy

Petrine authority

heresy

Baptism of blood

Baptism of desire

Genuflect

370 posted on 08/14/2020 7:29:10 PM PDT by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 361 | View Replies ]

To: ADSUM; boatbums
Second, the Bible nowhere uses the expressions “justification by faith alone” or “salvation by faith alone.”

What GOD tells us in Scripture is this about belief with NO mention of works.

John 3:14-18 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

John 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

John 11:25-26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

John 20:30-31 Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

However, HERE, works is mentioned....

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

And in this verse, works are excluded as being instrumental in saving someone. That leaves only faith.

So while Paul did not state it in a Catholic religion approved way, that salvation is *by grace through faith alone*, by stating that it's by grace through faith and adding the clause of * and NOT OF WORKS,, it is describing salvation by faith alone. Because if it's not of works, there's nothing left but faith. Alone.

Galatians 2:15-21 We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners; yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

But if, in our endeavor to be justified in Christ, we too were found to be sinners, is Christ then a servant of sin? Certainly not! For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor. For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.

373 posted on 08/14/2020 7:44:02 PM PDT by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 361 | View Replies ]

To: ADSUM
Why does someone who doesn’t know if they will die in the state of grace rely on man made assurance of salvation instead of the Sacrament of Reconciliation that provides absolution from sins that was authorized by Jesus Christ?

All believers are in God's grace, all the time.

Grace is not grace if it's earned or merited.

Absolution from sins, by a fallible, corrupt, likely immoral human being who may have been molesting kids the day before, or providing cover for said molesters?

Why would I go to the likes of cocaine using, homosexual, pedophile Catholic clergy for any spiritual guidance?

That'd be like going to a pusher for cancer treatment.

374 posted on 08/14/2020 7:50:11 PM PDT by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 361 | View Replies ]

To: ADSUM
Why does someone who doesn’t know if they will die in the state of grace rely on man made assurance of salvation instead of the Sacrament of Reconciliation that provides absolution from sins that was authorized by Jesus Christ?

HUH?

I don't even know where to begin to parse this!

379 posted on 08/14/2020 8:19:12 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 361 | View Replies ]

To: ADSUM; aMorePerfectUnion
Second, the Bible nowhere uses the expressions “justification by faith alone” or “salvation by faith alone.” The first was directly the invention of Luther; the second his by implication. Luther inserted “alone” into the German translation of Romans 3:28 to give credence to his new doctrine.

By this time i trust your ignorance on Rm. 3:28 has exposed, while the argument "the Bible nowhere uses the expressions “justification by faith alone” or “salvation by faith alone,”' is sophistry, akin to stating that God nowhere condemns father/daughter incest, even though that is covered under "None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover their nakedness: I am the Lord." (Leviticus 18:6)

For while the phrase "justification by faith alone" nowhere appears, the exclusion of works being the means/instrument of justification does, such as in,

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: (Ephesians 2:8)

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; (Titus 3:5)

And neither restrict works to being those of the law, as if works of charity could merit salvation, and while the law is used in Rm. 4, yet that is the highest system of salvation by actual merit, "for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law." (Galatians 3:21)

Arguing that works done by grace merit salvation does not help, since one who sought salvation under the law could do so under the premise that this was by the grace of God.

However, neither can faith be separate from works, as meaning faith that is alone, with "faith alone" Luther himself stating such truths as that "Faith cannot help doing good works constantly..." "if faith be true, it will break forth and bear fruit..." "where there is no faith there also can be no good works; and conversely, that there is no faith... there are no good works." "Therefore faith and good works should be so closely joined together that the essence of the entire Christian life consists in both." 'if obedience and God's commandments do not dominate you, then the work is not right, but damnable, surely the devil's own doings..."

Nor does it mean that believers cannot be saved due to being found "worthy," (Revelation 3:4) as meaning they manifest salvific faith.

However, what is false is that of Rome's salvation by actually becoming good enough to be with God via baptism and then (for most) RC Purgatory.

454 posted on 08/15/2020 6:28:24 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Trust the risen Lord Jesus to save you as a damned and destitute sinner + be baptized + follow Him)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 361 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson