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Posted on 08/09/2020 7:46:24 AM PDT by MurphsLaw
We should stop trying to evangelize Protestants, some Catholics say. “Let’s get our own house clean first, before we invite our fellow Christians in,” someone commented on a recent article of mine that presented a Catholic rejoinder to a prominent Baptist theologian. Another reader argued that, rather than trying to persuade Protestants to become Catholic, we should “help each other spread God’s love in this world that seems to be falling to pieces before our eyes.” As a convert from Protestantism, actively engaged in ecumenical dialogue, I’ve heard this kind of thinking quite frequently. And it’s dead wrong.
One common argument in favor of scrapping Catholic evangelism towards Protestants is that the Catholic Church, mired in sex-abuse and corruption scandals, liturgical abuses, heretical movements, and uneven catechesis, is such a mess that it is not, at least for the moment, a place suitable for welcoming other Christians.
There are many problems with this. For starters, when has the Church not been plagued by internal crises? In the fourth century, a majority of bishops were deceived by the Arian heresy. The medieval Church suffered under the weight of simony and a lax priesthood, as well as the Avignon Papacy and the Western Schism, culminating in three men claiming, simultaneously, to be pope. The Counter-Reformation, for all its catechetical, missionary and aesthetic glories, was still marred by corruption and heresies (Jansenism). Catholicism has never been able to escape such trials. That didn’t stop St. Martin of Tours, St. Boniface, St. Francis de Sales, St. Ignatius Loyola, or St. Teresa of Calcutta from their missionary efforts.
The “Catholics clean house” argument also undermines our own theology. Is the Eucharist the “source and summit of the Christian life,” as Lumen Gentium preaches, or not? If it is, how could we in good conscience not direct other Christians to its salvific power? Jesus Himself declared: “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.” (John 6:53) Was our Lord misrepresenting the Eucharist?
Or what of the fact that most Protestant churches allow contraception, a mortal sin? Or that Protestants have no recourse to the sacraments of penance or last rites? To claim Protestants aren’t in need of these essential parts of the Catholic faith is to implicitly suggest we don’t need them either.
* Moreover, in the generations since the Reformation, Rome has been able to win many Protestants back to the fold who have made incalculable contributions to the Church. St. John Henry Newman’s conversion ushered in a Catholic revival in England, and gave us a robust articulation of the concept of doctrinal development. The conversion of French Lutheran pastor Louis Bouyer influenced the teachings of Vatican II. Biblical scholar Scott Hahn’s conversion in the 1980s revitalized lay study of Holy Scripture.
Another popular argument in favor of limiting evangelization of Protestants involves the culture war. Catholics and theologically conservative Protestants, some claim, share significant common ground on various issues: abortion, homosexuality, transgenderism, euthanasia, religious freedom, etc. Secularism, the sexual revolution, and anti-religious progressives represent an existential threat to the survival of both Catholics and Protestants, and thus we must work together, not debate one another. “Let’s hold back any criticism of them,” a person commenting on my article wrote. “Believe me, in the times that we are in, we need to all hang together, or we will definitely hang separately on gallows outside our own churches.”
This line of thought certainly has rhetorical force: we don’t have the luxury of debating with Protestants when the progressivists are planning our imminent demise! Ecumenical debate is a distraction from self-preservation. One problem with this argument is that it reduces our Christian witness to a zero-sum game – we have to focus all our efforts on fighting secular progressivism, or we’ll fail. Yet the Church has many missions in the public square – that Catholics invest great energy in the pro-life movement doesn’t mean we shouldn’t also focus our efforts on other important matters: health-care, education, ensuring religious freedom, or fighting poverty and environmental degradation. All of these, in different ways, are a part of human flourishing. Even if we consider some questions more urgent than others, none of them should be ignored.
Besides, there is a vast difference between mere polemics and charitable, fruitful discussions aimed at resolving disagreements. The former can certainly cause bad blood. The latter, however, can actually foster unity and clarity regarding our purposes. Consider how much more fruitful our fight against the devastation of the sexual revolution would be if we persuaded Protestants that they need to reject things like contraception and the more permissive stance towards divorce that they have allowed to seep into their churches. Consider how non-Christians could learn from charitable ecumenical conversations that don’t devolve into name-calling and vilification.
Finally, abandoning or minimizing the evangelizing of Protestants is to fail to recognize how their theological and philosophical premises have contributed to the very problems we now confront. As Brad Gregory’s book The Unintended Reformation demonstrates, the very nature of Protestantism has contributed to the individualism, secularism, and moral relativism of our age. A crucial component to our Catholic witness, then, is helping Protestants to recognize this, since even when they have the best intentions, their very paradigm undermines their contributions to collaborating with us in the culture war.
I for one am very grateful that Catholics – many of them former Protestants – persuaded me to see the problems inherent to Protestantism, and the indisputable truths of Catholicism. My salvation was at stake. I also found and married a devout Catholic woman, and am raising Catholic children. The Catholic tradition taught me how to pray, worship, and think in an entirely different way. It pains me to think what my life would be like if I hadn’t converted to Catholicism.
Why bother to evangelize devout Protestants? Because they are people like me.
Mary called God her savior.
pOnly sinners need a savior and if she realized that she had one, then she knew she was a sinner.
Please show us the Scripture where it says, *For all have sinned, except Mary, and fall short of the glory of God.*
Besides, Scripture does record a place where she admits she sinned. Luke 2:48 says this....
When his parents saw him, they were astonished. His mother said to him, “Son, why have you treated us like this? Your father and I have been anxiously searching for you.”
They were ANXIOUSLY searching for Him. Worry is a sin.
If Mary had kept the Law perfectly, which is what never sinning is, then she would have proved that it’s possible for a human to attain salvation through the Law. If that was the case, then Jesus died for nothing.
She would not have needed a savior as she was sinless. And being sinless, she was outside the grace and mercy of God.
Grace only kicks in where there is sin. Romans 5:20 “ Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,”
And just in case you are clueless about why she could not experience the grace of God, is because without sin, she was in unbroken fellowship with God and anything she got from Him is what she deserved, which is justice, not grace.
Interesting that Mary admits that God is her savior, which only sinners need, and then Catholics go around saying that Mary was sinless.
They are accusing her of lying by saying she was wrong about what she said.
I really don’t need to respond line by line, simply because you continue to just assert your assumptions as inspired truth, while ignoring actual inspired truth in the Word of God.
I just find it amusing that you think you know what a sin offering is better than God Himself.
If God says it’s a sin offering, then that’s what it is; end of story.
So either Mary is a liar having made a sin offering when she was sinless, God is a liar in having declared something as a sin offering when it’s actually not, or Mary is a sinner just like everyone else in the world.
Seriously, what’s so horrible about Jesus’ mother actually having sin and needing a savior like everyone else? Why do you resist the idea so much that you threaten me with Hell in its defense?
I admit that my eyes glazed over on some of these repetitive responses.
Did they every admit WHY Mary being sinless is so important to them? Like, in their own words and not what we suspect?
Your right if you don’t wish to read and understand with logic and reason, then I don’t need to further respond to your comments.
I do hope that you begin to understand God’s truths instead of the lies from the devil.
Your false comment: “Only sinners need a savior and if she realized that she had one, then she knew she was a sinner.”
That is not true. A savior saves from danger or destruction.
You might need to be saved from destruction.
The Blessed Mother was saved from sin with special graces as the Mother of God (before she committed any sin). As Jesus restored the harmony with God, it allows the sinless Mary to enter Heaven by Assumption into Heaven.
Jesus, the Son of God, was sent by the Father to restore the harmony between himself and humanity that had been disrupted by sin. He came to teach and show us love. We are here to know God, accept his Truth and love Him and our neighbor.
You should try to use reason and logic and not contradict God’s Truth with your personal opinion.
Since you don’t want to understand the Catholic faith, perhaps you should look up answers to your questions or comments before you make further false statements about the Catholic faith.
Ask any EX Mormon how THEY felt!
Sadly; so many become atheists/agnostics showing that they STILL retain the Mormon mantra of ALL religions are wrong (except LDS).
HMMMmmm…
What did she need PURIFIED from?
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Luke 2:19-24
19 But Mary kept all these things, and pondered them in her heart. 20 And the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all the things that they had heard and seen, as it was told unto them. 21 And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called Jesus, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb. 22 And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord; 23 (As it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord;) 24 And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons.
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A little bit Freudian here?
Matthew 3:15
Jesus replied, “Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness.” Then John consented.
What on earth is Jesus referring to here?
Where in the OT is this 'requirement' found?
Once more; you assert what Rome has apparently taught to you as FACT.
Evidently; so did the Rich, Young ruler...
Matthew 1(:20 The young man said to him, “All these I have kept. What do I still lack?”
How does she do this?
John 20:21-23 King James Version
21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.
Uh; it appears you tried to slip something UNBIBLICAL into what you referenced.
Matthew 12:36-37
Oh; I don't think you are the devil; but I do tend to get the impression that repeating what you've evidently been so well taught is more important to you than what the bible (the book Rome assembled) plainly states.
See; you've been TAUGHT this; as it is NOT found in the BIBLE.
I do not know which 'he' this is you are referring to; but it is NOT what Jesus plainly said in the book Rome assembled.
Matthew 10:34-37 34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. 36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. 37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
Can I threaten you with Heaven, if you reject false doctrine? 😁🤣😊🙃
Did they every admit WHY Mary being sinless is so important to them? Like, in their own words and not what we suspect?
Hey bro, I was a catholic for many years, and even I don’t have a clue why the RCC needs a sinless Mary. I can offer an opinion, but I don’t know if it’s true or not. I suspect different Catholics have different reasons. As you know, the false doctrine, of the queen of Heaven, goes all the way back to Nimrod. Her original name, was Semiramis. Diana of the Ephesians was another. I think the worship of Nimrod, was widespread in the world, at the time of Jesus.
As to why the Catholics need her? I think this false goddess worship of Nimrod, and Semiramis, was incorporated into the church, to satisfy the pagans. As to why they think she is sinless? I have no clue. Of course, it’s false doctrine, and puts one in danger of Hellfire. 🔥 Maybe the religion of Nimrod teaches them they should worship a female deity. According to the dictionary definition of worship, she is worshipped. I am sure Mary would be turning over in her grave if she knew people were worshipping her. I know I worshipped her when I was a catholic. I am embarrassed to admit I did. 😁🤣🤪🙃😆😊🤑😞
Any other ex Catholics have any ideas? 🤪
“ He came to teach and show us love”
He came to die for sin.
I think I have met more ex Muslims, than ex Mormons, and I have known more ex catholics than either one. 😁
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