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Should we Evangelize Protestants ?
The Catholic Thing ^ | August 9th, 2020 | Casey Chalk

Posted on 08/09/2020 7:46:24 AM PDT by MurphsLaw

We should stop trying to evangelize Protestants, some Catholics say. “Let’s get our own house clean first, before we invite our fellow Christians in,” someone commented on a recent article of mine that presented a Catholic rejoinder to a prominent Baptist theologian. Another reader argued that, rather than trying to persuade Protestants to become Catholic, we should “help each other spread God’s love in this world that seems to be falling to pieces before our eyes.” As a convert from Protestantism, actively engaged in ecumenical dialogue, I’ve heard this kind of thinking quite frequently. And it’s dead wrong.

One common argument in favor of scrapping Catholic evangelism towards Protestants is that the Catholic Church, mired in sex-abuse and corruption scandals, liturgical abuses, heretical movements, and uneven catechesis, is such a mess that it is not, at least for the moment, a place suitable for welcoming other Christians.

There are many problems with this. For starters, when has the Church not been plagued by internal crises? In the fourth century, a majority of bishops were deceived by the Arian heresy. The medieval Church suffered under the weight of simony and a lax priesthood, as well as the Avignon Papacy and the Western Schism, culminating in three men claiming, simultaneously, to be pope. The Counter-Reformation, for all its catechetical, missionary and aesthetic glories, was still marred by corruption and heresies (Jansenism). Catholicism has never been able to escape such trials. That didn’t stop St. Martin of Tours, St. Boniface, St. Francis de Sales, St. Ignatius Loyola, or St. Teresa of Calcutta from their missionary efforts.

The “Catholics clean house” argument also undermines our own theology. Is the Eucharist the “source and summit of the Christian life,” as Lumen Gentium preaches, or not? If it is, how could we in good conscience not direct other Christians to its salvific power? Jesus Himself declared: “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.” (John 6:53) Was our Lord misrepresenting the Eucharist?

Or what of the fact that most Protestant churches allow contraception, a mortal sin? Or that Protestants have no recourse to the sacraments of penance or last rites? To claim Protestants aren’t in need of these essential parts of the Catholic faith is to implicitly suggest we don’t need them either.

* Moreover, in the generations since the Reformation, Rome has been able to win many Protestants back to the fold who have made incalculable contributions to the Church. St. John Henry Newman’s conversion ushered in a Catholic revival in England, and gave us a robust articulation of the concept of doctrinal development. The conversion of French Lutheran pastor Louis Bouyer influenced the teachings of Vatican II. Biblical scholar Scott Hahn’s conversion in the 1980s revitalized lay study of Holy Scripture.

Another popular argument in favor of limiting evangelization of Protestants involves the culture war. Catholics and theologically conservative Protestants, some claim, share significant common ground on various issues: abortion, homosexuality, transgenderism, euthanasia, religious freedom, etc. Secularism, the sexual revolution, and anti-religious progressives represent an existential threat to the survival of both Catholics and Protestants, and thus we must work together, not debate one another. “Let’s hold back any criticism of them,” a person commenting on my article wrote. “Believe me, in the times that we are in, we need to all hang together, or we will definitely hang separately on gallows outside our own churches.”

This line of thought certainly has rhetorical force: we don’t have the luxury of debating with Protestants when the progressivists are planning our imminent demise! Ecumenical debate is a distraction from self-preservation. One problem with this argument is that it reduces our Christian witness to a zero-sum game – we have to focus all our efforts on fighting secular progressivism, or we’ll fail. Yet the Church has many missions in the public square – that Catholics invest great energy in the pro-life movement doesn’t mean we shouldn’t also focus our efforts on other important matters: health-care, education, ensuring religious freedom, or fighting poverty and environmental degradation. All of these, in different ways, are a part of human flourishing. Even if we consider some questions more urgent than others, none of them should be ignored.

Besides, there is a vast difference between mere polemics and charitable, fruitful discussions aimed at resolving disagreements. The former can certainly cause bad blood. The latter, however, can actually foster unity and clarity regarding our purposes. Consider how much more fruitful our fight against the devastation of the sexual revolution would be if we persuaded Protestants that they need to reject things like contraception and the more permissive stance towards divorce that they have allowed to seep into their churches. Consider how non-Christians could learn from charitable ecumenical conversations that don’t devolve into name-calling and vilification.

Finally, abandoning or minimizing the evangelizing of Protestants is to fail to recognize how their theological and philosophical premises have contributed to the very problems we now confront. As Brad Gregory’s book The Unintended Reformation demonstrates, the very nature of Protestantism has contributed to the individualism, secularism, and moral relativism of our age. A crucial component to our Catholic witness, then, is helping Protestants to recognize this, since even when they have the best intentions, their very paradigm undermines their contributions to collaborating with us in the culture war.

I for one am very grateful that Catholics – many of them former Protestants – persuaded me to see the problems inherent to Protestantism, and the indisputable truths of Catholicism. My salvation was at stake. I also found and married a devout Catholic woman, and am raising Catholic children. The Catholic tradition taught me how to pray, worship, and think in an entirely different way. It pains me to think what my life would be like if I hadn’t converted to Catholicism.

Why bother to evangelize devout Protestants? Because they are people like me.


TOPICS: Catholic
KEYWORDS: catholics; christianity; evangelicals
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To: MayflowerMadam
Litanies of Our Lady of Mount Carmel

 

BEFORE EACH OF THE FOLLOWING SALUTATIONS SAY:
"Our Lady of Mount Carmel,"
AND AFTERWARDS: "Pray for us Sinners."

Queen of Heaven,
Victorious over Satan,
Most Obedient Daughter,
Most Pure Virgin,
Devoted Spouse,
Mother Most Tender,
Model of Perfect Virtue,
Sure Anchor of Hope,
Refuge in Sorrow,
Dispensatrix of the Gifts of God,
Bastion Against Our Enemies,
Our Aid in Danger,
The Way Leading to Jesus,
Our Light in Darkness,
Our Consolation at the Hour of Death,
Advocate of the Most Abandoned Sinners,
For the Hardened in Vice,
For Those who Offend Thy Divine Son,
For Those Who Neglect to Pray,
For Those Who are in Agony,
For Those Who Defer Their Conversion,
For Those Suffering in Purgatory,
For Those Who Do Not Know Thee.
 
Let Us Pray.
 
  

Our Lady of Mount Carmel, glorious Queen of Angels, channel of God's tenderest mercy to man,
refuge and advocate of sinners, with confidence I prostrate myself before thee, beseeching thee to obtain for me [Mention request silently].
In return I solemnly promise to have recourse to thee in all my trials, sufferings and temptations,
and I shall do all in my power to induce others to love and reverence thee and to invoke thee in all their needs.
I thank thee for the numberless blessings which I have received from thy mercy and powerful intercession.
Continue to be my shield in danger, my guide in life, and my consolation at the hour of death.
 
Amen.
 

581 posted on 08/17/2020 6:33:59 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
Can you prove no Catholics worship mary? No.

According to the dictionary definition of worship, I worshipped Mary, when I was a catholic. 😁🤣 You probably did too. No more, however.
By the way, praying to Mary and the saints, is evil. The Bible calls it necromancy. 🤪

582 posted on 08/17/2020 6:35:21 PM PDT by Mark17 (USAF Retired. Father of a US Air Force commissioned officer, and trained Air Force combat pilot.)
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To: MayflowerMadam
Most Pure Virgin,
Devoted Spouse,

Sorry Joe; but I have that same headache I had last night, and the night before that and...

I'll probably have it tomorrow night as well.

583 posted on 08/17/2020 6:36:32 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: MayflowerMadam

Heck; even Joel Osteen tells folks to find themselves a bible based church to attend!


584 posted on 08/17/2020 6:37:58 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Mark17

I don’t know what % of Roman Catholics worship Mary,
but I’d bet the majority idolize her as a demigoddess.


585 posted on 08/17/2020 6:38:36 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion (I'd rather be anecdotally alive than scientifically dead... f)
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To: Mark17

They should look at what happened when King Saul tried to talk to a dead person.


586 posted on 08/17/2020 6:39:39 PM PDT by Luircin
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To: Luircin; teppe
Catholics are taught that being Catholic makes you better than everyone else.

Heck; Mormon minds of mush get filled with better than that!!


 
 
Professor Robert Millet        teaching at the Mission Prep Club in 2004  https://youtu.be/6CWwMgAtZOA  <-- Complete and uneditted
 
 
Timeline...    Subject...
 
0:59           "Anti-Mormons..."
1:16           "ATTACK the faith you have..."
2:02           "We really aren't obligated to answer everyone's questions..."
3:57           "You already know MORE about God and Christ and the plan of salvation than any who would ATTACK you."

 
 

 
 
 

587 posted on 08/17/2020 6:40:07 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: ADSUM

Jesus is the ark, not Mary.

Mary was merely pregnant for 9 months and gave birth.

She didn’t need to be perfect not sinless. Jesus could handle having an imperfect, sinful mom.


588 posted on 08/17/2020 6:40:31 PM PDT by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: Mark17

They’ll never admit it, though.

Except maybe by accident when they’re breathlessly screaming at us about how sinful we are.

I have a lot of fun on these threads; the FRomans around sound like they’re giving themselves ulcers.


589 posted on 08/17/2020 6:41:07 PM PDT by Luircin
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To: ADSUM; Luircin; Mom MD

GOD does not have a mother.

He is eternal. If He had a mother, then He would have had a beginning and Mary would be preeminent over God.

Since you claim God has a mother, then the Catholic god is not the God of the Bible..


590 posted on 08/17/2020 6:43:15 PM PDT by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
“ The pride of being in “the one true church” is a lure that is hard to escape.

Ya think?!?


 

MORMON
ATTITUDES OF SUPERIORITY
 

  1. I’m Superior; I have a special gift of the holy Ghost -- you don’t!
  2. I’m Superior; I have God’s true priesthood power -- you don’t!
  3. I’m Superior; I can go in God’s secret Temple -- you can’t!
  4. I’m Superior; I’ve been Endowed with special Gifts and Knowledge -- you’re just normal!
  5. I’m Superior; I’ll have my family with me in heaven -- you’ll be with strangers!
  6. I’m Superior; I’m becoming a God -- you aren’t!
  7. I’m Superior; My women know their place as servants of man and yours don’t.
  8. I’m Superior; YOUR creeds are wrong because they come from man - mine comes from God (you can find each one printed in our Scriptures).
  9. I’m Superior; I don’t HAVE a creed - I’ve got 13 Articles of Faith.
10. I'm Superior; I have 4 "Bibles"-- the standard works (5 if you count the JST) -- you've only got one: in as far as it is translated correctly.
11. I’m Superior; I can lie with impunity about such things as church membership, church growth, church doctrine, church history, church influence, etc. —                           -- You can’t.
12. I’m Superior; I am right (everybody knows) when I say 'evangelical' Christians are lunatics -- 
                           -- You’re a hideous narrow-minded bigot, who is persecuting me by practicing discrimination by saying I'm not a Christian.
13. I'm Superior; I have a testimony about a prophet -- you don't.
14. I'm Superior; I have a Scripture-producing Amos 3:7 prophet -- you don't
15. I’m Superior; I have a Living Prophet who talks to god every day -- you have a dim-witted hireling of Satan who only talks to himself.
16. I'm Superior; I have my calling & election made sure -- you don't.
17. I’m Superior; I have magic underwear to protect me from the bogey man -- you don’t.
18. I’m Superior; I have secret clasps and grips to give the angel so I get admitted to the celestial kingdom -- you don’t ;so you can’t.
19. I'm Superior; I know secret handshake codes for afterlife entrances-- you don't.
20. I’m Superior; I will see Joseph Smith setting on the right hand of GOD, when I get to Mormon heaven, and he will recognize me and judge me favorably                              -- You’re on your own; when you get to wherever you’re going!
21. I’m Superior; I’m going to hie to Kolob -- you’re going to who knows where.
22. I’m Superior; I get to have a harem and act like a celestial stud for time and all eternity -- you don’t.
23. I’m Superior; I have sun stones, moon stones, sky stones, cloud stones, Saturn stones, and the evil eye of Osirus guarding my temple
                            -- You have nothing but a stupid cross.
24. I’m Superior; My church has billions in assets stashed away -- yours has taken a stupid vow of poverty.
25. I'm Superior; Last - we have the power to keep a whole race out of our priesthood if we wanted to reinsert our 148-year legacy  (we ARE still keeping an entire GENDER at bay!)
26.  I'm superior; I have the "higher law" -- everyone else "lives under the "lesser law' because I say so...(over and over).
 
 
Revision 46.5
Semi-Official creed of the EXclusive club of Freeper Flying Inmans.
All rights liable to be abused.

591 posted on 08/17/2020 6:43:22 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
I don’t know what % of Roman Catholics worship Mary, but I’d bet the majority idolize her as a demigoddess.

No doubt bro. My point is, however, according to the dictionary definition of worship, idolizing her as a demigoddess, IS worship. 🤪😁

592 posted on 08/17/2020 6:46:16 PM PDT by Mark17 (USAF Retired. Father of a US Air Force commissioned officer, and trained Air Force combat pilot.)
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To: ADSUM
Similarly, in Revelation 8:3-4 we are told that something …

Interesting.


But Rome really can't get past the bad doctrine it taught to at least seven churches in Asia mentioned by an angel in the first three chapters.


Wanna address those??

593 posted on 08/17/2020 6:46:30 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Luircin

Ulcers? I’m sure they have an Ulcer Saint.
And a feast that honors him. (non-spicy, lactose free , of course).


594 posted on 08/17/2020 6:47:14 PM PDT by smvoice (I WILL NOT WEAR THE RIBBON.)
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To: Mom MD

Staggering, isn’t it.

That’s why I say that if you remove all the Mary stuff from Catholicism, it’ll collapse like a house of cards.


595 posted on 08/17/2020 6:47:29 PM PDT by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: Mom MD

You know what would be nice?

Is if some Catholic somewhere had the integrity to be actually embarrassed about drivel like that instead of swooning over it.


596 posted on 08/17/2020 6:49:18 PM PDT by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: ADSUM
Archaeology has revealed two tombs of Mary, one in Jerusalem and one in Ephesus.

The fact that Mary lived in both places explains the two tombs.

FACT??
I can see where the Beloved disciple possibly DIED at Ephesus:

"NPNF2-01. Eusebius Pamphilius: Church History, Life of Constantine, Oration in Praise of Constantine – Christian Classics Ethereal Library". ccel.org.


...but that does NOT place Mary there.

597 posted on 08/17/2020 6:57:47 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: ADSUM
...except for the fact of the assumption of her body.

There you go again.

Stating something is FACT merely because you've been taught it is true; without evidence.

598 posted on 08/17/2020 6:59:14 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Luircin

He(?) misspoke.

Just ask Freud!


599 posted on 08/17/2020 7:01:01 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

Looks like assumption of facts...


600 posted on 08/17/2020 7:03:33 PM PDT by kosciusko51
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