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Posted on 08/09/2020 7:46:24 AM PDT by MurphsLaw
We should stop trying to evangelize Protestants, some Catholics say. “Let’s get our own house clean first, before we invite our fellow Christians in,” someone commented on a recent article of mine that presented a Catholic rejoinder to a prominent Baptist theologian. Another reader argued that, rather than trying to persuade Protestants to become Catholic, we should “help each other spread God’s love in this world that seems to be falling to pieces before our eyes.” As a convert from Protestantism, actively engaged in ecumenical dialogue, I’ve heard this kind of thinking quite frequently. And it’s dead wrong.
One common argument in favor of scrapping Catholic evangelism towards Protestants is that the Catholic Church, mired in sex-abuse and corruption scandals, liturgical abuses, heretical movements, and uneven catechesis, is such a mess that it is not, at least for the moment, a place suitable for welcoming other Christians.
There are many problems with this. For starters, when has the Church not been plagued by internal crises? In the fourth century, a majority of bishops were deceived by the Arian heresy. The medieval Church suffered under the weight of simony and a lax priesthood, as well as the Avignon Papacy and the Western Schism, culminating in three men claiming, simultaneously, to be pope. The Counter-Reformation, for all its catechetical, missionary and aesthetic glories, was still marred by corruption and heresies (Jansenism). Catholicism has never been able to escape such trials. That didn’t stop St. Martin of Tours, St. Boniface, St. Francis de Sales, St. Ignatius Loyola, or St. Teresa of Calcutta from their missionary efforts.
The “Catholics clean house” argument also undermines our own theology. Is the Eucharist the “source and summit of the Christian life,” as Lumen Gentium preaches, or not? If it is, how could we in good conscience not direct other Christians to its salvific power? Jesus Himself declared: “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.” (John 6:53) Was our Lord misrepresenting the Eucharist?
Or what of the fact that most Protestant churches allow contraception, a mortal sin? Or that Protestants have no recourse to the sacraments of penance or last rites? To claim Protestants aren’t in need of these essential parts of the Catholic faith is to implicitly suggest we don’t need them either.
* Moreover, in the generations since the Reformation, Rome has been able to win many Protestants back to the fold who have made incalculable contributions to the Church. St. John Henry Newman’s conversion ushered in a Catholic revival in England, and gave us a robust articulation of the concept of doctrinal development. The conversion of French Lutheran pastor Louis Bouyer influenced the teachings of Vatican II. Biblical scholar Scott Hahn’s conversion in the 1980s revitalized lay study of Holy Scripture.
Another popular argument in favor of limiting evangelization of Protestants involves the culture war. Catholics and theologically conservative Protestants, some claim, share significant common ground on various issues: abortion, homosexuality, transgenderism, euthanasia, religious freedom, etc. Secularism, the sexual revolution, and anti-religious progressives represent an existential threat to the survival of both Catholics and Protestants, and thus we must work together, not debate one another. “Let’s hold back any criticism of them,” a person commenting on my article wrote. “Believe me, in the times that we are in, we need to all hang together, or we will definitely hang separately on gallows outside our own churches.”
This line of thought certainly has rhetorical force: we don’t have the luxury of debating with Protestants when the progressivists are planning our imminent demise! Ecumenical debate is a distraction from self-preservation. One problem with this argument is that it reduces our Christian witness to a zero-sum game – we have to focus all our efforts on fighting secular progressivism, or we’ll fail. Yet the Church has many missions in the public square – that Catholics invest great energy in the pro-life movement doesn’t mean we shouldn’t also focus our efforts on other important matters: health-care, education, ensuring religious freedom, or fighting poverty and environmental degradation. All of these, in different ways, are a part of human flourishing. Even if we consider some questions more urgent than others, none of them should be ignored.
Besides, there is a vast difference between mere polemics and charitable, fruitful discussions aimed at resolving disagreements. The former can certainly cause bad blood. The latter, however, can actually foster unity and clarity regarding our purposes. Consider how much more fruitful our fight against the devastation of the sexual revolution would be if we persuaded Protestants that they need to reject things like contraception and the more permissive stance towards divorce that they have allowed to seep into their churches. Consider how non-Christians could learn from charitable ecumenical conversations that don’t devolve into name-calling and vilification.
Finally, abandoning or minimizing the evangelizing of Protestants is to fail to recognize how their theological and philosophical premises have contributed to the very problems we now confront. As Brad Gregory’s book The Unintended Reformation demonstrates, the very nature of Protestantism has contributed to the individualism, secularism, and moral relativism of our age. A crucial component to our Catholic witness, then, is helping Protestants to recognize this, since even when they have the best intentions, their very paradigm undermines their contributions to collaborating with us in the culture war.
I for one am very grateful that Catholics – many of them former Protestants – persuaded me to see the problems inherent to Protestantism, and the indisputable truths of Catholicism. My salvation was at stake. I also found and married a devout Catholic woman, and am raising Catholic children. The Catholic tradition taught me how to pray, worship, and think in an entirely different way. It pains me to think what my life would be like if I hadn’t converted to Catholicism.
Why bother to evangelize devout Protestants? Because they are people like me.
I think if you are interested, you should look it up. It is not hard.
Seek and you may find the Truth.
We protestants don’t want to be part of a homosexual cult.
That’s because you’ve only hallucinated that part and
you seem to have one very overactive imagination.
7
Yes. that is why i try to share it with those ensnared by the Roman Church every. chance I get
“the Sacrament of the Eucharist was given to us by Jesus Christ at the Last Supper”.
Well, you are correct in some degree: Jesus indeed commanded the disciples to remember Him and broke bread and blessed the cup at the last supper. St. Paul confirms and reiterates it as well in several passages. Bread and Wine in remembrance of His death and sufferings, one to atone for our sins and the other to heal our bodies. I find no evidence of living blood and human tissue in the bible, but I do in archaic writings of ancient pagans.
“It was passed down to Catholics through Sacred Tradition before Scriptures were written and continues as the summit and source of our Christian life”
Hmm. That poses a problem to Believers, as Jesus IS the WORD of God and His Word suffices and exceeds any need.
“Perhaps since you reject the words of the Eucharist that we need to eat and drink Christ’s Body and Blood for our salvation”
Again, completely mistaking a scripture passage wherein Jesus, early in His ministry, made that statement and all but a few of His followers departed and ceased following. The passage is about what Jesus said in John 6:53 after His declaration about eating His flesh and drinking His blood: “The Spirit gives life! The flesh counts for nothing. The Words I have spoken are Spirit and they are life!”
Earlier He stated in v. 32 & 33: “I tell you the truth. it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world”.
So, Jesus is speaking about being the Bread from Heaven, which gives life eternal. Now, what is life eternal but the reduction and removal of the wall of separation from God due to sin? Jesus clearly is talking about paying the sin debt and suffering for it. His flesh and Blood as a substitutionary payment for my sin and my fallen flesh. To infer that the eating and drinking is literal is to ignore the tone of the scripture and the entire promise of God—That a debt has to be paid because God is Righteous ad Holy and Jesus, God in man’s flesh and blood would be the payment in full.
Secret “pre scriptural” arguments are why I left the RCC at a fairly young age when I tasted and saw the goodness of God! I indeed ate the Bread from Heaven and was saved, body and soul and given a regenerated spirit by which I can call out to God “Abba” ( Daddy)! In this world I am a powerful robust experience man who stands firmly for principles of life liberty and freedom, but in Gods economy I am a child, a son of 59 years young ( 41 in Christ) needing a guiding hand each day, while my mind is being renewed. Wonderful!
Finally, Jesus sits on the right hand of the Throne of GOD in heaven. He needs his heart, He is a living soul in a glorified body, He was alive, was dead and lives for evermore! Praise HIM! Hear ye HIM!
Blessing in Christ, although we disagree on some critical points, Peace.
Don’t be an ass
I used to be one. I am glad I got evangelized. 👍 😁
I don’t need to read about some occultish findings.
Lots of things are “real” but not of God. I like the Shroud of Turin in particular- the RCC officially says nothing, but many RCCs would fight over it, even among themselves. How can that be of God?
Jesus said to Thomas” you believe because you see (and touch and hear me) but blessed are those who will believe w/o seeing or hearing or touching....”
I know the Truth, He is my Savior.
Blessings to you and yours
The Didache is not Scripture.
When Christ died on the cross, He declared, Tetelesti! Which means *Paid in full*, or *It is finished*.
Jesus is done paying for our sins. His death and resurrection is proof of that. He’s not continuing to pay for it and we are not continuing to participate in His death.
Now, since it’s a done deal, all we can do is look back and remember it. Since it is not ongoing, we cannot continue to participate in it.
Preach it.
No way am I going to put myself under the alleged authority or someone who disobeys God and engages in the kinds of reprehensible sin Catholicism both engages in and protects in its clergy.
Every religion needs to clean house.
Many are so infiltrated by Socialist leaders that teaching Socialism is now their primary goal.
I think they really do believe they hold the copyright to the word "church". I think they are brainwashed to believe ONLY their church can administer the Lord's Supper in the way Jesus meant which will only be acceptable to God rather than the observance being of a remembrance of Christ's sacrifice and our reception of it as a sign of our faith and fellowship with ALL of the body of Christ. Is only their interpretation of Jesus' words valid? I can't help but think there's some real insecurity showing through like when bullies attack others trying to make themselves look better.
The poster is new (perhaps), but it's disappointing to see the return of this kind of thread that intentionally provokes non-Catholic Christians and appears to belittle our faith. However, like all the threads before it, we will persevere in defending our faith according to the word of God and our trust in His promises in spite of the attacks. The joy of the Lord is our strength! One would think they'd learn by now, right?
“It was passed down to Catholics through Sacred Tradition before Scriptures were written and continues as the summit and source of our Christian life”
Your comment: “Hmm. That poses a problem to Believers, as Jesus IS the WORD of God and His Word suffices and exceeds any need.”
So you ignore history and what actually happened as the Catholic Church began so that you can claim “sola scriptura”. Jesus repeated “Take,eat This is My BodY.” Drink of it, all of you; for this is my blood of the covenant...” Matthew and Mark 14:22-24 and Paul in 1 cor 11:23-26. Also John 6 describes His flesh as food necessary for our salvation.
Then you rejected the Catholic Church that Jesus founded for our salvation. Jesus told us if one rejects His Apostles and their successors, then they reject Jesus.
You do realize that “sola scriptura” is not biblical and was not taught by Jesus or the Apostles or the Catholic Church?
This was made up by man in rebellion to the Catholic Church in the 1500’s.
Did you seek any information on the scientific analysis of a consecrated host? Jesus has tried to provide these Eucharistic miracles so that more people will believe.
So you are saying “The flesh counts for nothing.” In other words, the flesh of the living resurrected Jesus counts for nothing? I don’t know anyone who claims to be a christian can make that statement after Jesus told us that his flesh and blood were food and drink for our life and salvation.
I appreciate the discussion even if there is significant disagreement. I do believe that the protestant doctrines are a departure from what Christ taught and they attempt to use the Bible (that was written by early Catholics) to contradict God’s Truth. I do believe that many protestants have accepted the myths about the Catholic faith and are not willing to use reason and logic to understand God’s Truth.
God’s Peace be with you.
Catholics seem to be to religion
what Democrats are to politics.
Neither are truly free. Both are slaves, on a plantation, owned by a Slave Master who is supposedly solely responsible for their final salvation. Neither is encouraged to read the Bible for themselves. They are told what it says and what it means.
They won’t leave their religious/political plantation for fear of not being able to survive on their own.
+1
One correction: Catholics are discouraged
from reading and studying their Bible for themselves.
Democrats are discouraged from reading and studying the U.S. Constitution for themselves.
Good analogy. It’s sad.
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