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To: Roman_War_Criminal

“Not trying to dispel your post with a cheap copy/paste, but this is pretty close to how I see it. https://www.gotquestions.org/restrainer.html";

I read article at your link. Like every claim I’ve ever seen attributing that the restrainer is the Holy Spirit, there is no exegetical reason. The passage is treated the way cults use random passages as proof texts. This does not automatically mean it or you are incorrect, but I do insist on more than anecdotal evidence to support such a critical and pivotal interpretation.

The idea that the restrainer is Michael is straight from scripture. The abomination of desolation was known to Paul by reading Daniel and also the teachings of Christ, who also cited Daniel and admonished a careful reading of Daniel to understand coming events such as this. It is within this specific context we find angels fighting with principalities of Satan’s kingdom, culminating with Michael’s actions triggering the onset of the Great Tribulation. See Daniel 12... “at that time” which is unequivocally the exact time of the abomination of desolation Paul is referring to in 2 Thessalonians. Further, Revelation indicates exactly where Michael is and what he is doing at this exact moment in chapter 12 of that book.

Make no mistake. God is going to give Michael the command to evict Satan and his angels from Heaven. Michael and his angels will do so. It is only when this event occurs in Heaven, that antichrist will become Satanically driven to set up his throne in the temple to receive the worship of the world.

If Satan had the power, he would destroy Israel and the Church right now. He does not and cannot. However, he will be permitted to operate through antichrist during the second three-and-a-half years of Daniel’s seventieth week. He will only be allowed to do this when Michael does his part. The timing is NOT up to the Devil but is up to God.

“I have a problem with the fact that The Apostle John doesn’t have a clue as to who those people are that came out of the Great Tribulation. He literally can’t identify them. Now if they were the Born Again Church, which he is a member of, he’d easily be able to do that - but here he can’t.”

This is a highly speculative assertion. John was given a mystical vision. There are many things that are not obvious and require explanation. Several had to be explained to John. If you or I saw a great multitude of last-generation Christians, we would not automatically know who they were without any explanation. If I saw a large gathering of Christians in choir uniforms at a football stadium, I could only speculate who they were. The interaction with John was more for our benefit. We get to have who they were explained to us, along with John. These are the last generation of Christians who are alive during the Great Tribulation. We are not told how they get to Heaven. They just suddenly appear. It is possible they all died due to the terrible things that happened on the earth, such as famine, war, and plague. It is possible they were all martyred. But it is also possible they were raptured. While the passage does not answer this question, it is consistent with the sequence of events I’ve listed elsewhere. This is the section of Revelation where the seals are ending and the trumpet and bowl judgments are about to begin. It is, what I believe to be, one section where there is a transition from events of the Great Tribulation into the Day of Wrath.

“There also comes into question the way God focuses on His people throughout history. For most of history, He kept His eyes and focus on Israel. For the past 2,000 years, it’s been the Church. He still has 7 years due to Israel or 1 week. IMHO, that week will begin at the beginning of the ‘covenant with many’ (Daniel 9:27).”

I agree. God’s unique dealing with Israel as His earthly people, and His everlasting, unchanging covenant with the elect remnant of Israel is essential to unravel the meaning of end times prophecies. But it is a case where our eschatological views can and do influence our dispensational views. I do not believe in replacement theology. I believe though that there is an overlap of the Church and Israel because some people are members of both groups. That is certain. The apostles were.

The Church began at Pentecost around 33 AD. But the temple existed, and the apostles continued participating in temple activities, until 70 AD. The apostles were fully part of the Church but were also citizens of Israel. There can easily be overlap between God working in Israel and the Church in the last days at the same time. One crucial element has to do with when “all Israel” repents and is saved. I argue that this cannot occur at the onset of Daniel’s seventieth week. In fact, that is one of the main purposes of this week—to bring Israel to national repentance. At first they will be deceived by antichrist, but later they will “look on Him whom they have pierced” and repent. Doesn’t the sealing of the 144,000 provide compelling evidence that this is when that national repentance occurs?

Also, consider this. How does such an incredibly large multitude of faithful followers of Christ emerge during a time of universal deception, strong delusion, persecution, trials, and the supposed removal of the Holy Spirit from the earth? And how can these people believe, as Paul asked in Romans 10, without a preacher? If ALL of the preachers are to be raptured out, how are 144,000 Jews converted? How are uncountable multitudes of Gentiles (and probably Jews as well) also converted and received into Heaven?


77 posted on 08/02/2020 8:54:10 PM PDT by unlearner (Be ready for war.)
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To: unlearner

Ping for later - good post.


88 posted on 08/03/2020 10:17:17 AM PDT by Roman_War_Criminal (Like Enoch, Noah, & Lot, the True Church will soon be removed & then destruction comes forth.)
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To: unlearner
Interesting perspective. OTH, many (me included) believe 2 Thess 2:3 is referring to theBody of Christ Believers being removed thus no longer being a vehicle by which Satan is restrained. Permit me to explain:

To be Born Again is to have God separate the soul and spirit and then ABIDE in the born again spirit (1 John 3:9). The Word of God refers to the Body of Christ believers as 'salt of the earth'. Salt restrains bacterial growth and thus disease. Sin is a disease of the soul effecting the spirit. When God is ABIDING in the spirit there can be no sin in that spirit.

The Presence of the SEED (spirit) of God in the Born Agains restrains the lawless one. A Society with Born Agains actively living therein acts as a natural restraint on sin, until the Laodicean attitude overtakes that restrainer influence. The Philidelphian influence acts as a restrainer of sin behaviors.

When GOD removes the Born Agains from the Earth, from all societies of peoples the lawless one is unrestrained and rises to have the power to rule unrestrained by the Presence of The Holy Spirit in peoples who are The Body of Christ. The Body of Christ as a collective Body, when removed from the Earth, un-restrains the rise of antichrist.

When unrestrained, antichrist fools the Jews who take his powerful actions as those of their messiah. At the mid-point in the antiChrist's reign he does something which shocks the Jews into realizing he is not Messiah (the abomination of desolation).. The Body of Christ has been absent from the Earth for at least three and a half years (likely longer, since the Rapture removal of the Body of Christ is not the start of the Tribulation, the treaty with Israel IS).

90 posted on 08/03/2020 11:09:59 AM PDT by MHGinTN (A dispensation perspective is a powerful tool for discernment)
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