Salvation is a free gift of God! You can have confidence you are saved.

Teleios ^ | Teleios

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“ Baptism seals the person’s soul with a permanent spiritual mark or character identifying one as belonging to Christ.”

...::

Never in Scripture, just an old roman priest claim.

[MHGinTN]

LOL, that one is scared of how long he will be held in purgatory torment. Play fraud games get fraud prizes.

[MHGinTN]

READ 1 John 3:9 ... you are in grievous error, for it is GOD WHO is in the born again. Get saved, get God in your spirit.

[boatbums]

>>Heb. 9:24 For Christ did not enter a man-made sanctuary that was only a copy of the true one; he entered Heaven itself,<<

This states there is a REAL ark with REAL manna, budded staff and stone tablets in Heaven. The one on earth was a copy of the real one in Heaven.

No, it doesn't say that. It is speaking about the Tabernacle/Sanctuary, the Holy of Holies, the place where the Ark of the Covenant WITH its Mercy Seat (the cover) was entered once a year by the high priest (and ONLY the high priest) to offer the blood sacrifice upon the Mercy Seat to make atonement for the sins of the people - it symbolized the presence of God with the people. The REAL Holy of Holies - is the presence of God in heaven.

But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that have come, He went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made by hands and is not a part of this creation. He did not enter by the blood of goats and calves, but He entered the Most Holy Place once for all by His own blood, thus securing eternal redemption. For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that their bodies are clean, how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself unblemished to God, purify our consciences from works of death, so that we may serve the living God! (Hebrews 9:11-14)

>>The REAL Mercy Seat is in heaven. The physical items contained within the Ark of the Covenant were meant for the Jews.<<

Then maybe the Mercy Seat is just meant for Jews according to that cherry picking thinking. You can't just pick and choose to suit your denominations beliefs. WHY wouldn't there be The perfect Law of God in Heaven? After all that is what tells us what sin is. God would not hide that information, would He?

No, the sacrifice of Jesus Christ is clearly for the sins of the whole world. I'm not doing the picking and choosing here but rather rightly dividing the word of truth. In heaven there will be no need for commandments since it will be written upon our hearts. We will be conformed to the image of Christ, like unto His glorified body, we will have the "mind of Christ" and will NOT sin ever again! Won't that be glorious!

[BipolarBob]

So the things in the heavenly Ark of the Covenant is just for the Jews, huh? And it definitely doesn't contain the Ten Commandments? And even if it did, it's just for Jews who made it to Heaven but nobody else?

That's a whole lot to digest there. I may need Elsie explain it to me (I'm a simple minded person) because I'm not reading this theory in the Bible. And it doesn't make any sense whatsoever. I would think when God says He made a copy, then He made a copy. An accurate one. And that the things in the earthly model had pretty close to the same things in the Heavenly one including some stone tablets with the Laws of the Universe on them.

In heaven there will be no need for commandments since it will be written upon our hearts.
That doesn't seem to be the case of the majority of Christians on earth today. They willfully flout His Law now.
Luke 18:8 Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?. Here Jesus is wondering will there be any faithful servants of God that have not fallen away into the doctrines of the world.

[Elsie]

1. The bible wasn’t explicit enough to pinpoint Golgotha
2. the bible wasn’t clear enough as to where Joseph’s tomb was
3. The bible never mentions just where rocks were rent.

[Elsie]

I would think when God says He made a copy, then He made a copy. An accurate one.

Except for the Book of MORMON; of which Joseph Smith lost or had stolen 116 pages of his translation.

But he never did re-translate those parts of the Reformed Egyptian.

(I'd think he could do it TWICE; don't you?)

[metmom]

That doesn't seem to be the case of the majority of Christians on earth today. They willfully flout His Law now.

Ahh, maybe because they aren't Christians? They are just professing ones?

Just because someone says they are a Christian, doesn't mean they are.

[Philsworld]

1. The bible wasn’t explicit enough to pinpoint Golgotha

------------------------------------------------

You mean this Golgotha, located right outside the city gates? I think it was dated to around 1900 or so.

[boatbums]

Ok, Bob, I don’t think you are “simple minded” but maybe a little obtuse. You need to reread what I posted rather than twist it.

Let me ask you...do you think when someone is in heaven with God that they will need to follow the commandments or they will get tossed out into hell?

[Philsworld]

A more recent picture of Golgotha (plenty of them on the internet for you to see) "place of a skull"

[Philsworld]

3. The bible never mentions just where rocks were rent.

---

I’m going to take an educated guess and say right around the area of the cross. Or maybe in Denmark?

[Philsworld]

Anything ever discovered biblically related where the location was not mentioned in the bible? That’s what I thought.

[BipolarBob]

Ahh, maybe because they aren't Christians? They are just professing ones?
Just because someone says they are a Christian, doesn't mean they are.

That's not fair! You can't be jumping over to my side. I think y'all are trying to make me crazy.

[Philsworld]

Here's one dated 1930's with some camels and guys walking on the road in the foreground. Golgotha, right outside the city gates.

[BipolarBob]

You need to reread what I posted rather than twist it.
What part did I get wrong? I'm not intentionally twisting it.

Let me ask you...do you think when someone is in heaven with God that they will need to follow the commandments or they will get tossed out into hell?

That's a good question. Ezek. 28: 14You were anointed as a guardian cherub, for I had ordained you. You were on the holy mountain of God; you walked among the fiery stones. 15From the day you were created you were blameless in your ways— until wickedness was found in you.
What happened to Lucifer and a third of the angels?
OTOH, I don't think anyone who has endured living in sin here on earth and then is redeemed and sees/experiences Heaven with our Creator will ever be tempted in any way to go back to wickedness.

[Philsworld]

looks like the face of a skull, doesn’t it? It probably hasn’t changed too much in 2000+ years. Very recognizable to anyone looking at it. And again, it’s right outside the city gates (at the time of Christ).

[Philsworld]

What happened to Lucifer and a third of the angels?

---

Alex, I’ll take sin and breaking God’s commandments for $1000.

[Elsie]

All I know is that the Jews are His chosen people.
And HE made a COVENANT with THEM.

Galatians 3:15, NIV

“Brothers and sisters, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add to a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case.”

Someone’s going to have to show me just where in the NT that Gentiles are included in the COVENANT.

Acts 15 seems mighty clear to me.

[boatbums]

>>You need to reread what I posted rather than twist it.<<

What part did I get wrong? I'm not intentionally twisting it.

You asked:

So the things in the heavenly Ark of the Covenant is just for the Jews, huh? And it definitely doesn't contain the Ten Commandments? And even if it did, it's just for Jews who made it to Heaven but nobody else? That's a whole lot to digest there. I may need Elsie explain it to me (I'm a simple minded person) because I'm not reading this theory in the Bible. And it doesn't make any sense whatsoever. I would think when God says He made a copy, then He made a copy. An accurate one. And that the things in the earthly model had pretty close to the same things in the Heavenly one including some stone tablets with the Laws of the Universe on them.

I didn't say the heavenly Ark of the Covenant was for the Jews only. I said the man made Ark of the Covenant was for the Jews. It represented God's presence with them while they were sojourners on this earth. It was meant to be covered - not visible to the ordinary people, carried ONLY by a select tribe. Once the Temple was built in Jerusalem, it was kept within the inner sanctuary. If you noticed in the passage I posted from Hebrews 9, Jesus went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made by hands and is not a part of this creation. So no, there is NO mention nor need for the manmade AOTC to be in heaven. Within the earthly one, the stone tablets were God's commandments to the Jews which was part of His old covenant with them. The Mercy Seat was a temporary substitute for the altar in heaven where the once-for-all blood of Jesus Christ was poured out for the atonement. It was NOT repeated unlike the once a year sacrifice made on the earthly Mercy Seat.

The presence of the jar of manna symbolized God’s constant provision for His people. Aaron’s rod which was dead, yet grew buds was placed inside the ark to symbolize God’s approval of Aaron for High Priest. So you see these were all relevant to the people of Israel. God DID call the Gentiles to His plan of salvation which was why Christ's sacrifice on the cross was for all mankind.

You can read more about the Ark of the Covenant HERE.

>>Let me ask you...do you think when someone is in heaven with God that they will need to follow the commandments or they will get tossed out into hell?<<

That's a good question. Ezek. 28: 14You were anointed as a guardian cherub, for I had ordained you. You were on the holy mountain of God; you walked among the fiery stones. 15From the day you were created you were blameless in your ways— until wickedness was found in you. What happened to Lucifer and a third of the angels? OTOH, I don't think anyone who has endured living in sin here on earth and then is redeemed and sees/experiences Heaven with our Creator will ever be tempted in any way to go back to wickedness.

Okay, you know that angels aren't humans, right, and humans won't BE angels, right? When the redeemed are in heaven with God, the old sin nature is completely gone. There is only the new born again spirit with glorified bodies. There won't be a need for commandments or laws, because we will have the Spirit of God within us. God creates a new heaven and a new earth where righteousness dwells for eternity:

Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying: “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man, and He will dwell with them. They will be His people, and God Himself will be with them as their God. ‘He will wipe away every tear from their eyes,’ and there will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the former things have passed away.”
And the One seated on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” (Revelation 21:1-5)

The wonderful truth God wants us to know is:

“This is the covenant I will make with them after those days, declares the Lord. I will put My laws in their hearts and inscribe them on their minds.” Then He adds: “Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more.” And where these have been forgiven, an offering for sin is no longer needed. (Hebrews 10:16-18)