Posted on 05/08/2020 4:37:58 PM PDT by pastorbillrandles
What IS in my spirit is not 'my seed of grace'. HE abides in my spirit by HIS GRACE and I cannot remove HIS SEED; HE put HIS SEED in my before dead spirit and that spirit is now alive forever more, BY HID GRACE not my efforts.
Are you aware that this thread continues?
Can you honestly ask yourself, 'Is baptism, presenting your body for baptism, a work you must perform to obtain Salvation?'
No, I am amazed
I even have my ears and eyes open to your false teaching, as well as to the Truth Jesus taught. But that was a nice try ... for a Catholicism apologist.
Were you aware this thread is still active?
Your ignorance not withstanding, there are several references to the notion of the Rapture removal of the Body of Christ way earlier than the sixteenth century. But I doubt you would even want to know that since it would shatter your false narrative.
The doctrine has been right there since Paul wrote down and taught what Jesus taught him, but just as a blind person cannot perceive light and dark (let alone the difference between the hues of red and blue and yellow); those whose religion has not led them to spiritual rebirth cannot discern or apply the truths hidden in the Old Testament but revealed in the New--they are still blind to them.
One of the truths is that spiritual life comes only by unreserved never-failing faith alone in the Person and Work of Jesus the Messiah, one to whom He becomes Lord, Master, and Friend.
Another truth is that only such humans from Adam until now, whose utter reliance is on the Son of God, will be suddenly called to arise and meet Him in the clouds, ascend with Him to Paradise, and ever be with Him.
Are you prepared for this event yet to come, one seemingly imminent? Or does it seem foolish to you to get ready for it?
Congratulations!
Perhaps now you'll give up your non-Christian beliefs and follow Christianity? come to Christ's Church in orthodoxy
As 1 Thessalonians 4 says
Finally then, brethren, we request and exhort you in the Lord Jesus, that as you received from us instruction as to how you ought to [a]walk and please God (just as you actually do [b]walk), that you excel still more. 2 For you know what commandments we gave you [c]by the authority of the Lord Jesus. 3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from [d]sexual immorality; 4 that each of you know how to [e]possess his own [f]vessel in sanctification and honor, 5 not in [g]lustful passion, like the Gentiles who do not know God; 6 and that no man transgress and defraud his brother in the matter because the Lord is the avenger in all these things, just as we also told you before and solemnly warned you. 7 For God has not called us for the purpose of impurity, but [h]in sanctification. 8 So, he who rejects this is not rejecting man but the God who gives His Holy Spirit to you.This very clearly REFUTES the fake 19th century secrete pre-trib rapture philosophy
9 Now as to the love of the brethren, you have no need for anyone to write to you, for you yourselves are taught by God to love one another; 10 for indeed you do practice it toward all the brethren who are in all Macedonia. But we urge you, brethren, to excel still more, 11 and to make it your ambition to lead a quiet life and attend to your own business and work with your hands, just as we commanded you, 12 so that you will [i]behave properly toward outsiders and [j]not be in any need.
13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep [k]in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive [l]and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a [m]shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive [n]and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
What does this actually teach?
St. Paul wrote to the Thessalnian Christians because they were worried about those who died before Christ's return. Many in the ancient world believed that a person simply ceased to exist upon death. These was a rumor in Thessalonica at the time Paul wrote the letter that the dead Christians had lost out on any chance of a physical resurrection. St.Paul assures them that it was not so. In fact, "the dead in Christ will rise first" to meet Christ
The Thessalonians knew their dead would rise again but apparently feared that they would not find them in Christ’s retinue at the time of his glorious return. St. Paul assures them that their dead will indeed be there; “slept through Jesus,” a unique phrase, equivalent to “the dead who are in Christ” of 15, cf. Rom 14:7-8. “In (the) word of the Lord”
Paul The Thessalonians knew their dead would rise again but apparently feared that they would not find them in Christ’s retinue at the time of his glorious return. St. Paul assures them that their dead will indeed be there; “slept through Jesus,” a unique phrase, equivalent to “the dead who are in Christ” of 15, cf. Rom 14:7-8. “In (the) word of the Lord”
As it is clear from his answer to their second question (5:1-12) that neither he nor anyone else knows the time of the Second Coming, there can be no question here of his either teaching or hinting at the imminence of the Parousia, as many moderns have thought. His utilization of Matthew 24 is conclusive of his conformity with Christ’s own teaching on the Parousia,Rapturists make the mistake of thinking "meet the Lord in the air" is about Christ not actually touching the earth.
The word St. Paul uses for meeting the Lord "in the air" is aer the Greek word for atmosphere
This SAME word is used in Ephesians 2:2
And you [a]were dead [b]in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the [c]course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.yet no one would claim that, because of this word, Satan wouldn't influence people on the earth
A consistent rapturist reading of this wod here would mean that only airplane passengers are influenced by Satan's power
NO, when Christ returns to the earth's atmosphere, He has returned to earth
Rapturists trying to point to the "coming in the clouds" -- but this ignores the symbol of divinity in the clouds
The Bible uses three Greek words interchangeably
Rapturists think that there is a different usage for each, but that is false - parousia is not used just for some fake "rapture" and the others for the 2nd coming
Paul doesn't mention this 19th century rapture idea as occuring before the appearance of the antichrist and before the second coming is simple: it never entered into his mind that anyone would believe Christ would rapture His Church before the final Eschaton
In the apocalypse, that is referred to as the battle with Gog and Magog, Christians will participate in that confrontation because there will be no secret rapture before it. Our comfort rests in Him who will emerge from that confrontation as the Victor.
THAT is the reassurance Paul offers, not the promise of an escape from the great Tribulation.
you go on about first and second heavens but you don't listen to Christ's teachings do you?
Do you read the Bible at all except in excerpts?
your passages show excerpts and then the conclusions in your post are against what Jesus taught
Has the wackadoodlisms of non-christianity twisted your mind to ignore the context?
Jesus clarified His words for you and you ignore it so you can cling to a false notion
The only biblical use of the term “born again” occurs in John 3:3-5—although, as we shall see, similar and related expressions such as “new birth” and “regeneration” occur elsewhere in Scripture (Titus 3:5; 1 Pet 1:3, 23). In John 3:3, Jesus tells Nicodemus, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” The Greek expression translated “born again” (gennathei anothen) also means “born from above.” Jesus, it seems, makes a play on words with Nicodemus, contrasting earthly life, or what theologians would later dub natural life (”what is born of flesh”), with the new life of heaven, or what they would later call supernatural life (”what is born of Spirit”).
Nicodemus’ reply: “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” (John 3:4). Does he simply mistake Jesus to be speaking literally or is Nicodemus himself answering figuratively, meaning, “How can an old man learn new ways as if he were a child again?” We cannot say for sure, but in any case Jesus answers, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, `You must be born again.”’ (John 3:5-7).
Here Jesus equates “born again” or “born from above” with “born of water and the Spirit.”
Clearly, the context implies that born of “water and the Spirit” refers to baptism.
1 John 3:9 [9] "Committeth not sin": That is, as long as he keepeth in himself this seed of grace, and this divine generation, by which he is born of God. But then he may fall from this happy state, by the abuse of his free will, as appears from Rom. 11. 20-22; Cor. 9. 27; and 10. 12; Phil. 2. 12; Apoc. 3. 11.
Why do you persist in closing your ears and mind to Jesus' teachings?
I wasn’t. See you at the rapture bro’s. 😁
In 1830 Darby met fifteen-year-old Mararet MacDonald, who claimed to have had a private revelation of a secret rapture that would occur shortly
flash alert -- the "secret rapture" didn't occur in 1830 nor in 1870 nor in 1914 nor in 2012 -- but the gullible who persist in believing in the 19thc century creation of secret pre-Trib rapture keep falling for itLet's go through all of the hilarious rapture fails
Net - net, this fake 19th century philosophy has been shown to be continuously failing and still rapturists follow it - adding on a few more years each time they fail
The Rapture question is determined more by ecclesiology than eschatology. Neither postrtibulationalism nor pretribulationalism is an explicity teaching of Scripture. The bible does not in so many words state itThe 19th century Darby philosophy of rapturism fails each time
Premillenialism is a fail - the Millenium is mentioned only once - in the book of the Apocalypse that is filled with symbolism. Its mention immediately follows Rev 19 Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
and then rev 20: 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
This is clearly figurative.
Premils misunderstand the message of Isaiah, Jeremiah and the entire New Testament by claiming the Kingdom is purely corporeal
Both Pre and post are soundly wrong
The Bible continually uses the terms Kingdom of God, Kingdom of heaven, Messianic Kingdom and Church interchangeably
The entire bible is amillenial and the Rapturists can only distort Revelation 20:1-6 -- note "distort" to put their 19th century rapture philosophy
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Yet we need to read what the Apostles themselves were taught and what they believed
Notice that they state that the Apostles and their listeneres were in the last days or the end of the age -- because the Messiah had come
Peter never changed his mind about this - as we read in 1 Pet 1:20 Christ was destined before the foundation of the world but was made manifest at the end of the times for your sake
This is relected in Pauline epistles like 2 Tim 3:1 "In these last days" and Jude 18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
We have been in the last days since that first advent of Christ
Since the Ascension God's plan has entered into its fulfillment. WE are already at 'the last hour'. Already the final age of the world is with us, and the renewal of the world is irrevocably under way
Nah, red ain’t the one who be ignorant. But if you want to call us fools for Christ while you keep your gnosis.....
Prior to the 16th century there was speculation the world would end, but no "secret Pre-Trib rapture" -- the only thing in common with the rapters were FAILS - folks thought the world would end in 1000 AD, then in 1033 -- both fails, like your numerous rapture fails
Just so you know, I was born again in 1872. I have been reading and studying His Word ever since, and in more than just English. The religion of Catholicism has twisted your mind to such a degree that you are left with mocking as your response to the Truth being offered to you. As it is and is darkening your heart, Catholicism is not Christianity. Read John 5:24 to find out how short of the goal your darkening heart is.
So, dead soul, when you type what you have been wrongly taught is the teaching from passages, I simply reject your false teaching. Satan has the Catholic religion firmly in his control, as illustrated by your pope leadership.
Do not take the mark which will too soon be commanded to you.
And BTW, just so you have been told, the Departure is not a secret and will not be a secret when millions and millions of believers --as the Body of Christ-- are transformed in the twinkling of an eye (1 Cor 15:51-54). You will possibly live long enough to witness it yourself, as folks around you suddenly are not visible to you. The phenomenon of the Rapture will leave an evidence trail which you better not mock in that day.
Hmmm, make that Born Again in 1972. I’m old, but not THAT old. Since your fellow traveler, Salvation enjoys focusing on any typos, I have pinged her.
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