I'm a newbie. This was one of my first posts. Frankly, I thought that it would take several weeks before I would provoke someone into kicking my ass. … I had found a forum discussing about whether or not the Shroud of Turin was fake. Before I retired I was a Medical Photographer for the College of Medicine at two prominent Universities in the US. I have NO doubt that the Shroud of Turin is real. … Interestingly enough there seems to be a prevailing sentiment that the image represented on the Shroud is none other than JESUS CHRIST, Creator of the Universe and everything in it. … I read from your reply that a coin was visible in the right eye of the person on the Shroud. In fact it was clear enough to identify the coin coming from a subset of coins minted during Pontius Pilate's reign. I had NEVER heard that! … In the spirit of advancing the discussion and contributing to the body of knowledge on the subject ( is the Shroud a fake? - who CARES if it is NOT JESUS! ) … How can we know? Let us read the writing on the wall .. . Your rely to me was thought out and I appreciate the time you spent writing it. … Class … CLASS! Everyone in your own seat. Mr. Swordfish, would you explain to everyone what, “Disambiguation” means. “Certainly, your Honor. For those fellow classmates from Rio Linda that is another way of saying, ‘Attacking a straw man.’ It is a fallacious attempt at giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument while actually refuting an argument that was NOT presented by that opponent." … You admonished me in a very condescending manner I should not assume to know what Jewish burial customs were in the first century. Yet a few paragraphs later YOU said, "Before I argue against full-sheet burials in Biblical times .. ." Sir, are YOU NOT presuming to know WHAT I'm going to say? WHY would I make THAT argument???? ( cough cough "strawman" ) Just WHAT in my reply would POSSIBLY lead you to THAT conclusion???? … MY point was I do NOT believe the Shroud depicts JESUS CHRIST! I supported my opinion by quoting the Bible. You argued that it was a Jewish tradition to place coins over the eyes of the deceased because, "who wants to look at dead staring eyes?" Have you considered Isaiah 52:14? "His visage was so marred more than any man." He had been beaten, scourged and crucified! … Ruben! RUBEN! Get over here. I don't think I can handle these dead staring eyes. Sure thing Ruth. I just happen to have some coins that have Pontius Pilate's inscription on them. You know, the guy who could have stopped all THIS! … FINALLY ( raucous cheering ) We know from Biblical accounts that the TRADITIONS were not always followed. See Matt.12:1 … Sir, I think you are an excellent writer and I'm glad you are here with us on freerepublic. I think you just had a bad day and demonstrated how it is better to be thought of as a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. … May God bless you all.
Linda Rio Drive? She is closing the sale of that house as we speak, having rented it for years? LOL!
You admonished me in a very condescending manner I should not assume to know what Jewish burial customs were in the first century. Yet a few paragraphs later YOU said, "Before I argue against full-sheet burials in Biblical times .. ." Sir, are YOU NOT presuming to know WHAT I'm going to say? WHY would I make THAT argument????
Sorry if you think it was condescending, but it has been my experience when someone starts with a post such as yours, when I provide a factual reply, the very next reply will be a response using a traditional English translation argument based on the Biblical “burial clothes” not meeting with the Shroud as being included, arguing “strips” and “bandages.” If I was wrong, I apologize. It was just many years of experience in replies that resulted in my response. I’ve found that being pro-active is better than spending a lot of time reacting. Perhaps, I should not have directed the response toward you but to skeptics in general, instead. I usually do that.
Thanks for your response. I, too, agree that science cannot determine whether the image on the Shroud is Jesus of Nazareth or not. It can only determine what about the Shroud’s image is factual or not factual. Scholarship on the Shroud can falsify other information. Biblical exegesis can shed light on it as well. So far, the evidence is falling on the side of authenticity.
As to your ascribing “Christian values” to Jews of the 1st Century, you please try to remember that “Christian values” had yet to appear and evolve. Those evolved over a two to four centuries or more period of letter writing and preaching based on the teachings of Jesus Christ, not to mention experience which developed into traditions, all while being persecuted by the Romans. As far as we know, Jesus did not speak a word of how His followers were to be buried, what was to be included, eschewed, etc., in such rituals. Ergo, Jesus was buried, as we were told, under the customs of the Jews, not the non-existent customs of Christians. Obviously, I am begging the question here, but as it would apply to the Shroud, it applies hypothetically.
By the way, welcome to FreeRepublic. Let me know if you’d like to be added to the Shroud of Turin Ping list to be notified of any future threads on the Shroud.