Posted on 03/15/2020 12:47:10 AM PDT by Morgana
In Anzù, Northern Italy, the hotbed of the coronavirus in Europe, is a basilica where the relics of Saint Victor and Saint Corona are being preserved since the 9th century.
Saint Corona was only fifteen when she professed her Christian Faith during the persecution of the Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius around 165.
Corona was arrested and tied by her feet to the tops of two palm trees which were bent to the ground. When the palms were let loose she was torn apart. According to the Roman Martyrology, this happened in Syria.
Two investigations in 1943 and 1981, proved that the relics belong indeed to a man and a woman. Cedar pollen was found confirming an original burial in Syria and then in Cyprus.
Saint Corona is especially venerated in Austria and Bavaria as the patron-saint of treasure hunters and against epidemics. Her feast day is May 14.
The Bible says ALL regenerate Christians are Saints.
For there is one God, and one mediator of God and men, the man Christ Jesus:
Have you not heard the story that the Word became flesh?
Doesn't change this:
We pray to the Creator....not the created.
Yes they are....but we don’t pray to them.
Luke 20
37 But that the dead are raised, even Moses showed, in the passage about the bush, where he calls the Lord the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob.
38 Now he is not God of the dead, but of the living; for all live to him.”
1 Pet 4:6 ... the Gospel was preached even to the dead, that though judged in the flesh like men they might live in the Spirit like God.Before his crucifixion Jesus says
“Truly, truly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live...."
- John 5
The conjuring of Samuel happened before the Incarnation, Passion, Descent and preaching to the dead, before the Lord "took captivity captive." It happened before the great unification Paul writes about in Ephesians. Yet even before his descent to the dead our Lord says that all live to God.
And there is the Transfiguration: Are Moses and Elijah dead? Yes, Elijah was taken up, but do we doubt that Moses died?
I find no grounds for certainty that every interaction with "those who have gone before" is prohibited necromancy and ample grounds for thinking that in the Spirit there is communion and communication among members of Christ's body.
He is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob—the God of the living, not the dead. About them being not living, you are badly mistaken.
We pray to the Creator.
*****
13These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.
14This is the confidence which we have before Him, that, if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us.
15And if we know that He hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests which we have asked from Him.
1 John 5:13-15 NASB
Yet, we do not pray to Abraham, Isaac or Jacob....we pray to the Creator.
Brother, I'm already in the Kingdom as I am a follower of Christ.
I'm trusting in His promise on this.
*****
As to the second, too bad for you! You are missing out.
Missing out on what?
When I pray to God I am not missing out on anything!
...and to the created. You have to add that to your statement for it to be accurate....from your perspective, but not that of the Scriptures.
We share some other creatures that we interact with. And then there are the parts where you have cut yourself off that the rest of us participate in.
I assure you....by praying to God I've not cut myself off from anything.
By praying with fellow believers in Christ on earth, I've not cut myself off from anything.
It is used to describe humans who have died on this planet (the deceased). It is used to describe some of the spirits of those who are deceased (dead in this earthly realm) but not alive in Christ (as opposed to those earthly "dead" who are "alive" in Christ).
Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob...and Moses, Joshua, et al. are dead when it is defined as having died on this planet. Is that not so?
I am curious why you are trying to blur the issue/definition of death? Why is it necessary to resort to logical fallacy if you are convinced of the "rightness" of your position?
I’d prefer to do one controversy at a time.
1. Whether attempts to communicate with “saints” are necessarily prohibited nectomancy?
1.a. Who is a saint?
1.b. How is the word “dead” properly used of Xptians who have “gone before”.
2. Whether and how the word “prayer” is properly used about making requests?
2.a. What are the implications of the presence or absence of Xrtian worship practices in the NT?
One reason I quit playing the FR religious controversy game is this scattering tendency. No question can he usefully asked if 30 seconds in we’re asked to look at another question
Again...praying to the Creator...not the created.
1.a. Who is a saint?
In the New Testament a saint is a believer in Christ.
In Roman Catholicism that's a whole different matter.
The remaining questions you ask can be resolved IF they are answered in the CONTEXT of Scripture.
2. Whether and how the word “prayer” is properly used about making requests?
In the context of the New Testament, there are no examples of the believers on earth praying to departed believers.
The writers of Scripture are clear in their writings...we are to pray TO the Creator.
I was addressing one of your points.
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