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To: Cronos
IIRC I posted to you on another thread beliefs of the ECFs on this issue. They seem to contradict your position IIRC.

And as a lay Roman Catholic, who are you to express any opinion on what the Scriptures mean. You have no training. You're not a priest. You can't even understand the Scriptures based on what your fellow Roman Catholics have told us on these threads.

176 posted on 11/12/2019 8:30:59 AM PST by ealgeone
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To: ealgeone

So is that a yes or a no on your belief in the 19th century non-biblical, non-Christian pre-Trib Rap?


188 posted on 11/12/2019 8:43:33 AM PST by Cronos (Re-elect President Trump 2020!)
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To: ealgeone
Rev chapter 12 describes the birth of Christ and the war in heaven.

Rev 12 - or rather Rev 11 ends with John seeing the ark of the covenant. This is a clear indication of a created being bearing God - this is both a vision of Mary, the ark bearing God - Jesus Christ and also ZION birthing christianity.

12:1 "And a great sign appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars; she was with child and she cried out in her pangs of birth, in anguish for delivery."
This links to Is 7:14 "There the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel" This also links to Is 26:17 and Is 66.7

John is referring both to Zion, the daughter of God and Mary who personifies Isaiah's Daughter Zion. God's Chosen people, Israel, gives birth to the Messiah of the world. Salvation comes from the Jews.

The woman wears a crown, like the 24 elders referred to earlier - indicating that they and she have been faithful and received "the crown of life" as alluded in Revelations 2:10

12:3 "And another portent appeared in heaven; behold, a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems upon his heads. his tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven, and cast them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to bear a child, that he might devour her child when she brought it forth;"
The 10 horns is a symbol of political power and the 7 crowns is about complete (7 signifies complete) power held by the chief fallen angel.

Remember that Red signifies Ruddy Edom. Herod was an Edomite (Edom = "red") who sought to destroy the infant Christ

Rev 12:5-6 She brought forth a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne, and the woman fled into the wilderness where she has a place prepared by God, in which to be nourished for one thousand two hundred and sixty days
1260 days = 42 months = 3.5 years = the duration of the Jewish-Roman war
Rev 12:7-9 Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against hte dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, but they were defeated and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world - he was thrown down to the earth , and his angels were thrown down with him.
Wis 2:24 But by the envy[a] of the devil, death entered the world, and they who are allied with him experience it.
rev12:10 And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, "now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, who accuse them day and night before our God."
Just as in rev 11:2, the destruction of the temple is spoken of in the same terms as being "cast out"
Rev 12:11 And they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto death

REjoise then, o heaven and you that dwell therein! But woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time is short
This is key - the Devil had 42 months, 3.5 years during the destruction of the 2nd temple to run amok
189 posted on 11/12/2019 8:43:45 AM PST by Cronos (Re-elect President Trump 2020!)
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To: ealgeone
The Great Tribulation in Rev says
17:13-14 Then one of the elders addressed me, saying, "Who are these, clothed in white robes, adn whence have they come?" I said to him "Sir, you know." And he said to me "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."
The washing of the robes means those who have been delivered

The Great Tribulation talks of how NERO persecuted God's people - this sustained and vicious tribulation of the Church started when Nero, the little horn, needed a scapegoat for the great fire of Rome. This state-sponsored persecution continued for about three years, until Nero diverted attention tot he Jewish-Roman war

Jesus clearly told the Sanhedrin that they would see evidence of the coming of the Son of man as predicted in Daniel 7:13 - for you to say this will happen after 2019 is FALSE. Jesus on the eve of His crucifixion made a promise to the Sanhedrin that THEY would see evidence of the coming of the Son of Man - he wasn't wrong by 2000 years!!!

Daniel clearly talks of the destruction of the Temple as the time of the Great Tribulation.Hebrews 9:24-25 christ has entered into Heaven itself, not to appear in the presence of God on our behalf. Nor was it to offer Himself repeatedly, as the High priest enters the Holy place yearly with blood not his own; for then He would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, He has appeared once and for all at the end of the age to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself

Daniel states that the purpose of the time is to bestow 6 blessings. These blessings were bestowed as a result of the first Advent The seventy weeks are decreed 'to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy."

The day when Christ was born, eternal righteousness was revealed, and the Saint of saints was anointed, namely Christ, and the vision and prophecy were sealed and those sins were remitted... It was because the prophecy was fulfilled by His advent that the vision was confirmed by a seal; and it was called a prophecy becuase Christ himself is the seal of all the prophets

190 posted on 11/12/2019 8:44:33 AM PST by Cronos (Re-elect President Trump 2020!)
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