| This thread has been locked, it will not receive new replies. |
|
Locked on 11/12/2019 11:45:53 AM PST by Religion Moderator, reason:
Childishness |
Posted on 11/12/2019 5:43:15 AM PST by Cronos
....The vast majority of popular churches teach that believers will be called up to Heaven before the tribulation. Simply stated, the Bible does not support this claim.
...
In many scriptures of the Bible, there is a “falling away” or discussion of great deceptions that are coming to the world. It has been hard for believers in Christ to comprehend the possibility of the masses falling away from Christianity because faith has been a powerful part of society for nearly two millenniums, but we are seeing it today. Moreover, we are seeing the spreading of a seed that will cause further apostasy among believers in Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior: the myth of a pre-tribulation rapture.
The not-so-simple answer is that Satan is pushing this as part of his agenda. It is Satan that rules the earth. His goal is to pull as many people away from the faith as possible, which is why he and his minions began deceiving Christians at their core starting in the early 19th century with the doctrine of a pre-tribulation rapture. He has brought about and continues to bring about waves of deceptions to pull people away from even considering the Word of the Bible, but this particular deception is to attack those who are wanting to be strong in their faith. It’s designed to shake the spirits of the believers to the point of non-belief.
Think about it. If you make people believe that they are not going to face suffering, that they are “special” and will avoid all of the troubles that will engulf the world, then they are weakened as a result.
(Excerpt) Read more at noqreport.com ...
I know I should, but still have major issues, trying to forgive them what they did to many honest and good people.
So you believe Jesus would pour out His wrath on His own followers who have His Holy Spirit in the end times horrors of the tribulation?
When Paul wrote 2 Thess 2 he was indicating to the Believers (the church in Thessalonika) that they would know they missed the Rapture removal of the Body of ALL BElievers IF they saw the man of sin revealed. It is AFTER the man of sin is revealed that the physical return of Jesus to the Mount of Olives is predictable. The counting ot eh two 3 1/2 yer periods of the Tribulation begins with the peace treaty/compact signed by the man of sin with Israel. The Tribulation comes upon the whole world, but the focal point during the Tribulation is Jerusalem and the Time of Jacob’s Troubles.
it does not really fit in, which is why it was the last book to be added to the western canon and was viewed suspiciously.
the Ethiopian canon is richer than the western one, with 89 books, yet it also added the book of revelations last
“We have people in America that have no concept of Christ or Christian teaching and people argue Post, mid or pre rapture?”
We now have homosexual pastors and the details regarding rapture is the biggest problem Christianity faces? Uh ... OK.
The question about rapture is only relevant if you happen to be in the generation when Christ returns. Who knows when Christ will return? It may not happen for many, many generations.
You keep repeating that lie, changing it a little each time. Eventually you will realize your error, or at least we can pray that you will awaken, eventually.
This is demonstrably wrong. The elect are taken, that is, believers.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (Matthew 24:31)
The book of the apocalypse was written during the AD 60s
1. external evidence: the Syriac version of the book of Revelation begins by stating that it was “written in Patmos, to which John was sent by nero Caesar”. Also the Syriac work “the history of john, the son of Zebedee” states that nero exiled John.
2. internal evidence: Rev 1:9, 2:10, 12:11, 13:15 states that it was written in a time of persecution. Rev 17:9-10 talks of 7 ‘kings’ - the 6th of whom was reigning and the 7th who will reign a short time - note “will reign”. this is nero, the “6th Julio-Claudian emperor” and the 7th was Galba who reigned a few months
3. historical evidence: there was no widespread imperial persecution under Domitian in the 90s.
The pre-Tribulation Rapture is true.
Two companies of saints respond to that great commanding shout in I Thessalonians 4:13-18: (A) The dead in Christ (hoi nekroi en Christo) shall rise first” (v16). The same verb used of Christ (v14) is used here of the resurrection of His own. The limiting phrase, “in Christ,” shows that this resurrection is confined to believers who have died from Pentecost, the incorporation of the Church. This limitation is supported by a number of Scriptural arguments. (a) The phrase “in Christ” is the NT term used only of believers in this gospel age. (b) The phrase “they that are Christ’s” (1Cor 15:23) is wider and includes believers of every age; but there are different “orders” or “ranks” in the resurrection unto life. Believers in the Church are just one of the ranks: “but every man in his own order.” (c) The resurrection of OT saints must be left where the OT places it in the divine timetable, at the close of the Tribulation period (Dan 12:1-2). Any interpretation that spiritualizes this resurrection to make it refer to the spiritual recovery of the nation of Israel stands self-condemned, misinterprets the passage, and misreads the context. This resurrection will include believers who have died in the Tribulation period (Rev 20:4-6).
(B) “We which are alive and remain” (hemeis hoi zontes perileipomenoi); living believers comprise the second company. Responding to that summons, their very bodies changing (1Cor 15:51-57), rising, they mingle and become one company (sun autois). Simultaneously, they are “caught up together.” The verb (harpazo) inherently has the idea of force in it: “take by force” (John 6:15) or “pluck away” (John 10:28); but “catch up or catch away” is a good translation. So translated on five other occasions in the AV (Matt 13:19; Acts 8:39; 2Cor 12:2, 4; Rev 12:5), it simply implies a swift, sudden removal of each believer by a superior force. In the Vulgate, the Latin word used by Jerome (345-420 BC) for harpazo is rapio, rapere, which translates into English as “to tear, to snatch, to carry off, to seize quickly.” It is by this Latin-based word that, in more recent times, believers have come to refer to this event as the Rapture. Such an endearing term delights our hearts.
First Thessalonians 4 deals with the problem of saints who have died before the Lord comes for the Church. In 1 Corinthians 15:51-57, the apostle has to consider a different angle – the problem posed by saints who are alive when the Lord comes. The dead saints, in this case, offer no problem. Their bodies, in rising from the grave, put on the incorruptible body patterned on Christ’s body. Since “flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God” (v50), the bodies of living saints must be changed. Paul writes, “Behold I show you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump” (v51). In 1 Thessalonians 4:16, the same trumpet is mentioned. For living believers, it is the signal for being clothed upon with the new body fitted for the kingdom. Incorruptibility and immortality belong inherently to this body (Phil 3:20-21). The change takes place in an instant of time; so quickly it cannot be measured by human technology.
At His ascension “a cloud received Him out of their sight” (Acts 1:9), and now the clouds receive the saints as they leave earth behind and move “to meet the Lord in the air” (1Thes 4:17). There is no suggestion in either passage that the clouds should be other than literal clouds, beyond which the saints have that special meeting with their Lord in the air. There is no obvious reason why air should not carry its normal NT meaning of “atmosphere,” so it will be behind the clouds in the atmosphere of the heavens, in its nearness to earth, and will thus be a testimony of the triumph of the power of Christ over Satanic power, calling away His Bride from earth. In Hellenistic Greek the word “meeting” carries the thought of a ceremonial presentation to a superior dignity but perhaps, in this context, Paul makes use of the basic meaning of the word “meeting,” as the Church, the Bride, meets her Lord as the Bridegroom. What a meeting that will be!
Paul does not tell us what follows the meeting in the air. For Paul, for the troubled Thessalonians, and for us, the ultimate comfort lies in the next sentence, “and so shall we ever be with the Lord” (v17). No believer needs anything beyond this absolute assurance. Here we rest. Eternity carries not the slightest fear.
Our Salvation in the Day of GRACE defies the prospect of suffering thru the Tribulation.
The suffering of Saints(Believers) has NOTHING to do with Salvation:
Ephesians 2:8-9 King James Version (KJV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that NOT OF YOURSELVES: it is the gift of God:
9 NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast.
POST TRIBULATION proponents are sadly mistaken if they think ANYTHING they Do, or suffer, is part of the GIFT of God.
And it only applies to that period of time.
Clutch brought Scripture and you, MHG says “that little spew is a lie. Don’t repeat lies”
really????
That is correct.
I’m pan-trib... In the end, it all pans out!
Dude Rider - Irenaeus wrote nothing supporting the pre-Trib rap heresy as that’s a 19th century heresy
you’re saying that the pre-Trib rap is void of the Truth found in scriptures?
Good, you are correct, the pre Trib rap IS void of the Truth found in scriptures
Ok, so you see it's not a Christian Believers thing.
So if a person wants to hold to the Pre-Trib rap body of Velievers thang, they can - it's non-Christian and non-biblical
But was not Revelation written to a Church that was suffering from persecution under Nero?
Do you really want to apply that standard to Roman Catholicism??
" For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."
The preposition εις (pronounced "ace") is in this context used in the foundational sense, "on the basis of."
That is, one's belief is based on Jesus' righteousness, and confession with the mouth is based on having been saved, not vice versa. You can't confess something that has not yet occurred. You don't get saved as a consequence of some words you have said.
Not being critical here to upstage you, just a correction to make sure the reader's interpretation is not based on the wrong concept of the verse.
Correct. Revelation WAS written to the Church that was suffering under the persecution of nero. And John talks of the upcoming destruction of Jerusalem in 69 AD
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.