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To: af_vet_1981

OK, if you are a glutton for punishment:

Only ignorance or guile can explain why one would argue that all that a translation contains means all such is considered Scripture, vs what constitutes the Protestant Bible of 66 books of Scripture (which contextually was the issue, vs what may be considered merely fit to read).

Based upon your presumption then Luther considered the Deuteros to be Scripture since he included most of these books in his Bible - between the Old and New Testaments. Thus these works are sometimes known as inter-testamental books.

You could have simply accessed the documented WP page on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_apocrypha:

“Likewise the English-language King James Version (KJV) of 1611 followed the lead of the Luther Bible in using an inter-testamental section labelled “Books called Apocrypha”, or just “Apocrypha” at the running page header.[38] following the Geneva Bible of 1560 almost exactly.”

“These same books are also listed in Article VI of the Thirty-Nine Articles of the Church of England.”

“All [}Protestant] English translations of the Bible printed in the sixteenth century included a section or appendix for Apocryphal books. Matthew’s Bible, published in 1537, contains all the Apocrypha of the later King James Version in an inter-testamental section. The 1538 Myles Coverdale Bible contained an Apocrypha that excluded Baruch and the Prayer of Manasseh. The 1560 Geneva Bible placed the Prayer of Manasseh after 2 Chronicles; the rest of the Apocrypha were placed in an inter-testamental section.”

“All King James Bibles published before 1666 included the Apocrypha,[42] though separately to denote them as not equal to Scripture proper, as noted by Jerome in the Vulgate, to which he gave the name, “The Apocrypha.”[43] In 1826,[44] the National Bible Society of Scotland petitioned the British and Foreign Bible Society not to print the Apocrypha,[45] resulting in a decision that no BFBS funds were to pay for printing any Apocryphal books anywhere. They reasoned that not printing the Apocrypha within the Bible would prove to be less costly to produce.[46][47] Since that time most modern editions of the Bible and reprintings of the King James Bible omit the Apocrypha section.”

These the 66 book Prot canon is shown to have been overall universally settled early on, more so than that of Catholicism which claims a universally settled canon from the 4th century.

Your only argument then is you asked “where does the Protestant Bible of 66 books show up?,” versus where does the Protestant canon of 66 books show up, which is simply sophistry, or ignorance, since canonicity was the issue.

Thus once again your posts have earned the title of “trolling,” and fit to be ignored.

Bye.


150 posted on 10/14/2019 5:55:36 AM PDT by daniel1212 ( Trust the risen Lord Jesus to save you as a damned and destitute sinner + be baptized + follow Him)
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To: daniel1212
The Authorized Version of the Protestant Bible (KJV 1611) contained a note from the translators who used the word "Bible" sixteen times in that essay. They defended their work of translating the Bible, even calling it "the whole Bible" in one place. In "the whole Bible" the KJV translators included those books in the order between the Old Testament and New Testament books. Those books remained for over 200 years in the Authorized Version (Protestant) and those books were not removed until 182(5/6), or 1885.

If it was "the whole Bible" in 1611 (and prior to that), it was diminished to save money after 1825 or 1885.

Were the translators wrong in 1611 (translating "the whole Bible"), or the publishers wrong in 182(5/6)/1885 (trying to save money)? Of course, if it were really about money, they could have dropped other books from the Old Testament.

The apocrypha is a selection of books which were published in the original 1611 King James Bible. These apocryphal books were positioned between the Old and New Testament (it also contained maps and geneologies). The apocrypha was a part of the KJV for 274 years until being removed in 1885 A.D. A portion of these books were called deuterocanonical books by some entities, such as the Catholic church.

Many claim the apocrypha should never have been included in the first place, raising doubt about its validity and believing it was not God-inspired (for instance, a reference about magic seems inconsistent with the rest of the Bible: Tobit chapter 6, verses 5-8). Others believe it is valid and that it should never have been removed- that it was considered part of the Bible for nearly 2,000 years before it was recently removed a little more than 100 years ago. Some say it was removed because of not finding the books in the original Hebrew manuscripts. Others claim it wasn't removed by the church, but by printers to cut costs in distributing Bibles in the United States. Both sides tend to cite the same verses that warn against adding or subtracting from the Bible: Revelation 22:18. The word 'apocrypha' means 'hidden.' Fragments of Dead Sea Scrolls dating back to before 70 A.D. contained parts of the apocrypha books in Hebrew, including Sirach and Tobit [source].

151 posted on 10/14/2019 8:04:02 PM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began)
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To: daniel1212
... one would argue that all that a translation contains means all such is considered Scripture, ...

One can find the claim that the Apocrypha was removed from the Authorized Version (Protestant) English translation to save on costs unpersuasive.

The Apocrypha controversy of the 1820s was a debate around the British and Foreign Bible Society, and the issue of the inclusion of the Apocrypha in Bibles it printed for missionary work. The Society did include the Apocrypha in Bibles for use in continental Europe, where it was normal for Protestant as well as Catholic readers to have the texts of the Apocrypha. Robert Haldane criticised this policy.[1]

The British and Foreign Bible Society had in fact dropped the Apocrypha from its bibles published in English in 1804. This decision broke with the tradition of Myles Coverdale, of consolidating the Apocrypha between the two Testaments.[2]

Haldane and William Thorpe began a general campaign in 1821, against all Bibles with the Apocrypha and their printing with funds raised from British sources. The Society was divided over the issue, but the majority view favoured the existing policy of case-by-case inclusion. In Spring 1826 an attempt to reach a compromise with the Haldane ("Recordite") view broke down. As a result, the major Scottish branches in Edinburgh and Glasgow left the Society. Most Scottish branches followed, and a few in England.[3]



... British Dissenters, particularly Scottish Presbyterians, objected to the inclusion of the deuterocanonical books in the Bible on doctrinal grounds and forced a split in the British and Foreign Bible Society. So it was not about saving money; it was about getting rid of the deuterocanonical books from the Bible.
153 posted on 10/15/2019 5:33:24 PM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began)
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To: daniel1212
Is there any portion of the Bible that depends on a book not in the Canon for confirmation ?

Is there any portion of the Protestant Bible that depends on a book not in the Protestant Canon for confirmation ?

  • And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.
  • And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch.
  • Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.


John, Catholic chapter ten, Protestant verses twenty two to twenty four,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James


The feast of the dedication (Hanukkah) did not appear anywhere in the Old Testament, and yet it appears here in the New Testament as a holyday in the Canon of Holydays, as it were. The Messiah Himself sanctifies the Feast of the Dedication (Rededication of the Holy Temple) with His presence at the Temple, affirming its authenticity.

The Gospel of John has a dependency on Second Maccabees, for it is no where else taught.

  • Whereas we then are about to celebrate the purification, we have written unto you, and ye shall do well, if ye keep the same days.
  • We hope also, that the God, that delivered all his people, and gave them all an heritage, and the kingdom, and the priesthood, and the sanctuary,
  • As he promised in the law, will shortly have mercy upon us, and gather us together out of every land under heaven into the holy place: for he hath delivered us out of great troubles, and hath purified the place.


Second Maccabees, Catholic chapter two, Protestant verses sixteen to eighteen,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James

154 posted on 10/15/2019 6:04:57 PM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began)
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