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Thank you for your patience and reply.

To your first paragraph - it is scriptural that we choose to believe. But note my assertion that the ability, the fact that we can is due to God’s grace. It is not something we can be proud of, nor that we save ourselves. It is that we choose to hold on to the life-saving ring thrown around us by God (God’s grace being the ring)

This is NOT Pelagian - as I stated clearly, grace is essential for and is how we are saved. We do not save ourselves.

“your answers below...” — no, I pointed out these are evidences of grace given by God, but those that God said we should do as a sign of our grace
Matt 24:12 “endure to the end”
Matt 25 - look after the poor and sick
1 Pet - baptism
Acts 16:31 believe and be saved’

Note that each point it is God’s grace that acts through us, and it is God’s grace that saves us.

Thank you for your patience and reply.BR> Rather, thank YOU for your irenic and gracious replies

To your first paragraph - it is scriptural that we choose to believe. But note my assertion that the ability, the fact that we can is due to God’s grace. It is not something we can be proud of, nor that we save ourselves. It is that we choose to hold on to the life-saving ring thrown around us by God (God’s grace being the ring)....This is NOT Pelagian - as I stated clearly, grace is essential for and is how we are saved. We do not save ourselves. “your answers below...” — no, I pointed out these are evidences of grace given by God, but those that God said we should do as a sign of our grace Matt 24:12 “endure to the end” Matt 25 - look after the poor and sick 1 Pet - baptism Acts 16:31 believe and be saved’ Note that each point it is God’s grace that acts through us, and it is God’s grace that saves us.

I could respond here in a number of ways, but I had rather focus on the areas which unite us rather than the areas (serious as I am convinced they are!) which divide.... as I am convinced you are, as well.

I believe I could shake your hand as a true brother in Christ, although we might go at it hammer and tongs over the innate ability of men to obey God in faith and obedience AT ALL, and yet I see you stating that even the ability to repent and believe (and persevere) are in fact rooted solely in the gift of God to us, even as God does not believe FOR is (it is truly my faith which saves me), but enables saving faith in me.

Over the years, I have come to believe that the issue is whether regeneration (the new birth) PROCEEDS FROM faith or in fact PRODUCES faith. That is, is a man (or woman) "born again" as a result of faith, or does one have faith as a result of God making us alive, so that faith is both "natural" and irresistible?

So called "Calvinists" (so I have been called! :) ) believe we are in the true tradition of Augustine (and Aquinas, as enamored with Human reason as he was!!!), and that the Roman church took a terrible turn at Trent, should step back, and return to a more theocentric understanding of the mechanics of salvation.

However, if we are honest with ourselves, we will admit (at least among ourselves, ha ha!) that issues concerning human responsibility and divine sovereignty are/may not be as easily quantifiable as Louis Berkhof (one of our favorite modern guys) may seem to imply.

I myself tend to be insistent to the point of obnoxiousness that salvation is ALL of God. Humans contribute NOTHING.... and yet it is also clearly true that our activities DO confirm, strengthen, and enable faith..., and again, it is MY faith which saves me although, again,that faith is the gift of God.

I am not smart enough to parse all this out, though, and while some of your comments do disturb me (I think them in error), I "get" where you are coming from.

Hope that long rant was not just blabber, but thought it important to say it anyway.