Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Why the Rapture isn’t Biblical… And Why it Matters
Patheos ^ | June 4, 2014 | Kurt Williams

Posted on 07/23/2019 5:26:09 AM PDT by Cronos

I grew up in church culture. Most of what I recall from those early childhood and teenage years bring memories of good things. People genuinely taught me that loving Jesus matters more than anything else in the world. The world, after all, is corrupt and the place we truly long for is far, far away – heaven. So we are to love Jesus and hate the world.

Now, this is not hatred toward the people on earth. I did not grow up in a church culture that taught that we ought to tell outsiders how much they suck, but that this “world is not my home, I’m just a passin’ through.”

World and physicality = bad.
Jesus and spiritual bliss in a distant heaven = goal of the game.

This distinction came with a subset of beliefs about the destiny of God’s world. Eventually this planet would be destroyed and we Christians would “fly away” to heaven at the rapture of the church. Certain Christians understood the timing of the rapture as it corresponds to the book of Revelation differently than others, but no one ever denied the imminent return of Jesus to evacuate the church out of earth.

What I’ve come to realize is that the church of my youth probably had the rapture all wrong. You see, the Bible flows from Creation (Gen 1-2) to Renewed Creation (Rev 21-22). This is the narrative of Scripture. Nothing in the text (if read in its proper context) alludes to the actual complete destruction of the planet. This world’s worth to the Creator runs deep and because of this, the world as a whole ought to be intrinsically valuable to us.

Physical/earthly realities such as social injustice, violence, hunger, preventable sickness, and the destruction of nature are invitations to the church of Jesus to get our hands dirty and proclaim that this world matters (even in its broken state)! Christ will complete creation upon his return, uniting heaven and earth for the life of the age to come!

The famous “rapture” passage is found in 1 Thessalonians 4.15-17 and reads:

According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

This passage, when placed in the larger context of the chapter, is answering questions that Christians in Thessalonica had concerning death. What has happened to our loved ones who have died before the return of Christ to earth? What is theirs and our ultimate destiny? Paul’s answer: bodily resurrection at the return of Christ to earth! Not an escape into the sky [see appendix below!].

In this passage, Paul borrows two specific images from the Old Testament that would have been familiar to Jewish converts and Gentiles who were familiarizing themselves with the Hebrew tradition. The first of these that Paul employs in the text has to do with Moses who comes down from Mount Sinai with the Law with the great blast of the trumpet.

The second image is taken from Daniel chapter 7 where the “one like the son of man” (or “human being” or “The Human One”) and the community he represents is vindicated over the enemies of the people of God. Clouds here symbolize the power and authoritative judgement of God about the rescue of his people. This idea now seems to be applied to Christians who are facing various forms of persecution.

Finally, there is a third image in the text that comes from outside of the canonical context. This is the image of an emperor who visits a city. The people of that region would have gone out to meet him to usher him into their home in a royal procession out in the open air. This, Paul seems to apply to the church who will usher in their King into the new creation.***

Rapture, as it is popularly understood, is nowhere to be found in this “rapture” passage. Christ will return to resurrect, to purge, to heal, and to establish the eternal kingdom of God on this earth. Heaven and earth will unite like a bride and husband – for all eternity. That’s it.

The Bible teaches that when Christ comes back, it will be Good News! “‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away’” (Revelation 21.4). Surely we cannot erase judgment from the picture, but the hope is that those in Christ will be raised to eternal life and everything that is wrong with this world will be made right.

This world renewed is going to be our home for eternity, and we have the opportunity to reflect that future in our present. Rapture invites us to escape this world: the last thing that Jesus would have ever taught! “On earth as in heaven” is what he said, not “in heaven away from the earth!” Our world’s future is hopeful. Let’s tell that story and not the escapist narratives that many of us grew up with.

[Kurt Note: This article is an adaptation from various pieces that are part of my “rapture” category.]

—————————————————————————————————

APPENDIX

Word Study, 1 Thessalonians 4.17 (Warning: a bit more technical!)

Below is a Word Study that I did based on 1 Thessalonians 4.17. What is interesting to me is how it reinforced my belief that the “rapture” as it is popularly understood (Jesus secretly returns to extract believers from earth to heaven for eternity) is completely unwarranted. If you choose to follow the logic below, you will know why 🙂

1. Word Identification

The word underlying “air” in 1 Thessalonians 4.17 is the Greek word “ἀήρ” (Strong’s: #109).

2. Frequency and Distribution

The usage of ἀήρ in the New Testament by verse:

Acts 22:23

…εἰς τὸν ἀέρ
…dust into the air,

1Co 9:26

…ὡς οὐκ ἀέρα δέρων·
…one that beateth the air:

1Co 14:9

…γὰρ εἰς ἀέρα λαλοῦντες.
…shall speak into the air.

Eph 2:2

…ἐξουσίας τοῦ ἀέρος τοῦ πνεύματος…
…power of the air, the spirit that…

1Th 4:17

…κυρίου εἰς ἀέρα καὶ οὕτως…
…the Lord in the air: and so shall…

Rev 9:2

…καὶ ὁ ἀὴρ ἐκ τοῦ…
…sun and the air were darkened by…

Rev 16:17

…ἐπὶ τὸν ἀέρα καὶ ἐξῆλθεν…
…vial into the air; and there came…

3. Meaning

1) the air, particularly the lower and denser air as distinguished from the higher and rarer air 2)the atmospheric region[1]

After surveying the above seven occurrences, it is clear that the definition is simply the area of unseen space in our atmosphere. Below, the meaning in its various usages are explained:

ήρ (aēr, 109), ἀέρος, , (ἄημι, ἄω, [cf. ἄνεμος, init.]), the air (particularly the lower and denser, as distinguished from the higher and rarer ὁ αἰθήρ, cf. Hom. Il. 14, 288), the atmospheric region: Acts xxii. 23; 1 Th. iv. 17; Rev. ix. 2, xvi. 17; ὁ ἄρχων τῆς ἐξουσίας τοῦ ἀέρος in Eph. ii. 2 signifies “the ruler of the powers (spirits, see ἐξουσία 4 c. ββ.) in the air”, i. e. the devil, the prince of the demons that according to Jewish opinion fill the realm of air (cf. Mey. ad loc.; [B. D. Am. ed. s. v. Air; Stuart in Bib. Sacr. for 1843, p. 139 sq.]). Sometimes indeed, ἀήρ denotes a hazy, obscure atmosphere (Hom. Il. 17, 644; 3, 381; 5, 356, etc.; Polyb. 18, 3, 7), but is nowhere quite equiv. to σκότος,— the sense which many injudiciously assign it in Eph. 1. c. ἀέρα δέρειν (cf. verberat ictibus auras, Verg. Aen. 5, 377, of pugilists who miss their aim) i. e. to contend in vain, 1 Co. ix. 26; εἰς ἀέρα λαλεῖν (verba ventis profundere, Lucr. 4, 929 (932)) “to speak into the air” i. e. without effect, used of those who speak what is not understood by the hearers, 1 Co. xiv. 9.*[2]

Although ἀήρ is not a word that is frequent in the New Testament, it is interesting to note that there is only one other word that is translated into English as “air.” The Greek οὐρανός has a different meaning when used as “air” than ἀήρ. Rather than referring to the “lower and denser air as distinguished from the higher and rarer air,” it means:

1. the vaulted expanse of the sky with all things visible in it

  1. a. the universe, the world
  2. b. the aerial heavens or sky, the region where the clouds and the tempests gather, and where thunder and lightning are produced
  3. c. the sidereal or starry heavens

2. the region above the sidereal heavens, the seat of order of things eternal and consummately perfect where God dwells and other heavenly beings[3]

It seems that the difference between these two words will prove to be significant. The word in the 1 Thessalonians text indicates the “air” of the “lower” region as opposed to the “heavens” as οὐρανός can also be translated (heavens – 24x, heavenly – 1, heaven – 218). In other words, Paul had an option to use either of the words to talk about the “air” but he chose to use the word that refers mostly to the lower atmospheric region.

4. Meaning in Context

In the context of 1 Thessalonians 4.17, Paul is answering questions regarding the blessed Christian hope. What happens to Christ-followers who die before the return of the Messiah? Are they gone forever? And what about those of us who are waiting for this day? What are we to look forward to? In answer to these kinds of questions Paul describes the coming of Jesus as a moment of resurrection. Because Jesus died and rose again, his followers will someday be like him. They will have bodies that are restored to the image of Christ who is the image of God.

Paul in this passage uses mixed metaphors to communicating the reality of the final resurrection. He employs imagery from the Old Testament as well as from Roman royalty. Christ will appear in such a way that it will be like Moses when he descended down from the Mountain of Sinai. He will come with the “clouds” meaning that he will come with the power / authority of heaven like the “son of Man” in Daniel 7. When this happens all followers of Jesus will be gathered around their King and will usher him into the new heavens and new earth.

Unfortunately, the present passage of Scripture has been interpreted in several different ways; mostly indicating that the return of Christ will be a rapturous moment when God will snatch believers away from this evil world to meet him in the “air” (up in heaven) for eternity. There are several problems with this approach (too numerous to look at for this word study). The current word study exposes one of the fallacies in this interpretive scheme.

Had the Apostle wanted to communicate that Christ coming downward to take us upward was the goal of the 2nd coming, he could have chosen to use a word like οὐρανός. This word, which is interpreted as “air” on some occasions (as indicated above), would have given the impression that going to meet Christ in the “air” was a upward heavenly route. However, what this word study has discovered is that the word Paul chose to use was one that indicates the lower part of the atmosphere. Paul had a grammatical choice to make, and clearly he did not want to misguide his first century audience by making them think that being “with the Lord forever” actually meant going to heaven, away from the creation project. So, in order to keep his metaphorical devices in place without giving the wrong impression, he chose to use ἀήρ to indicate that he was not talking about escaping this world; but rather being part of its redemptive process. If the alternative word had been selected, Paul would have given us the opportunity to affirm cosmological dualism.

5. Verification

There is no dispute of how ἀήρ is to be translated from Greek into English among the translations. In every version that was checked (ESV, KJV, NIV, and TNIV) this word is translated as “air.”

After consulting the “Easton Bible Dictionary” we find that this word study’s findings about the meaning of the word ἀήρ is consistent and verified. It states: “The atmosphere, as opposed to the higher regions of the sky (1Th_4:17; Rev_9:2; Rev_16:17).”[4] This is also confirmed by the UBS Greek Dictionary: “air; ethereal region above the earth, space.”[5]


FOOTNOTES

***N. T. Wright, “Farewell to Rapture,” Biblical Review (August 2001). http://www.ntwrightpage.com/Wright_BR_Farewell_Rapture.htm (accessed October, 2009).

[1]http://www.biblestudytools.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=109&version=nas

[2] http://www.greekbiblestudy.org/gnt/greekWordStudy.do?id=100095&greek=false

[3] http://www.biblestudytools.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=3772&version=nas

[4] See: Easton Bible Dictionary. Available Online at: http://refbible.com/a/air.htm

[5] The Greek New Testament With Greek-English Dictionary by B. Aland (Editor), K. Aland (Editor), J. Karavidopoulos (Editor), B. M. Metzger (Editor), C. M. Martini (Editor)



TOPICS: General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: biblestudy; rapture; rapturebiblestudy
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 41-6061-8081-100 ... 421-434 next last
To: fwdude

Going to prepare a place, if it was here why would he say that, exactly.


61 posted on 07/23/2019 7:36:44 AM PDT by ravenwolf (I)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: Maranatha7757

As I understand scripture, all Christians are the remnant of Israel. For the first 15 years or so the remnant was made up solely of Jewish people. However, we have been “grafted into” this remnant. This is the only true remnant of Israel.


62 posted on 07/23/2019 7:37:08 AM PDT by impactplayer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: circlecity
Certainly Christ, as God, is “present” in everything not just the Eucharist.

That is not a Christian belief but a Sanatana Dharma belief that there is no separation between creator and created.

Christianity believes that the created is distinct from the creator. Hinduism believes that in everyone is, literally, God

don't mix the two up

63 posted on 07/23/2019 7:37:34 AM PDT by Cronos (Re-elect President Trump 2020!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: cuban leaf

We are much in agreement.

The upcoming period of tribulation is to create suffering in order to turn people toward God. People like to think they are incontrol, until bad things start to happen.

Tribulation forces the ego to surrender and make room for God. At a lower level it is horrible, but if you rise up above it and see its purpose, it is wonderful. That is what rapture is. Merely being raised up in consciousness. As a neuroscience researcher, I can explain this process in medical and scientific terms.

It is much more difficult to experience by walking the walk than having the knowledge and merely talk the talk.


64 posted on 07/23/2019 7:37:58 AM PDT by tired&retired (Blessings)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies]

To: fwdude

John 14:3 is not about the “left behind” rapture but about heaven when we die.


65 posted on 07/23/2019 7:38:48 AM PDT by Cronos (Re-elect President Trump 2020!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: LeonardFMason; dartuser
Exactly.

Rom 5:9 and I Thess 5:9 both tell us that Christ will not allow His bride to endure the wrath of God (which is what the final seven-year period of Daniel, aka the Tribulation, or time of Jacob's trouble actually is). This not merely mean eternity in hell, it means any wrath of God. To say otherwise is to completely miscomprehend what the grace of God even means (which, admittedly, is something that almost no Catholics undersatand).

66 posted on 07/23/2019 7:39:10 AM PDT by Yashcheritsiy (I'd rather have one king 3000 miles away that 3000 kings one mile away)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 57 | View Replies]

To: ealgeone
firstly, there isn't a "left behind" rapture. But there is the fact that all of us, actually none of us know when we will die. It may be today or years from now - and we must all be ready.

The rapture fiction is just incorrect, but the correct thing is, as you said, to be prepared each day to live with Christ

67 posted on 07/23/2019 7:40:38 AM PDT by Cronos (Re-elect President Trump 2020!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: daniel1212
The rapture as in "left behind" is false. And no one's denying the tribulation that the people of Jerusalem experienced when it fell -- Jesus Himself said Matthew 24
24 And Jesus being come out of the temple, went away. And his disciples came to shew him the buildings of the temple.

2 And he answering, said to them: Do you see all these things? Amen I say to you there shall not be left here a stone upon a stone that shall not be destroyed.

3 And when he was sitting on mount Olivet, the disciples came to him privately, saying: Tell us when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the consummation of the world?

4 And Jesus answering, said to them: Take heed that no man seduce you:

5 For many will come in my name saying, I am Christ: and they will seduce many.

6 And you shall hear of wars and rumours of wars. See that ye be not troubled. For these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; and there shall be pestilences, and famines, and earthquakes in places:

8 Now all these are the beginnings of sorrows.

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall put you to death: and you shall be hated by all nations for my name's sake.

10 And then shall many be scandalized: and shall betray one another: and shall hate one another.

11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall seduce many.

12 And because iniquity hath abounded, the charity of many shall grow cold.

13 But he that shall persevere to the end, he shall be saved.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom, shall be preached in the whole world, for a testimony to all nations, and then shall the consummation come.

15 When therefore you shall see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place: he that readeth let him understand.

16 Then they that are in Judea, let them flee to the mountains:

17 And he that is on the housetop, let him not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 And he that is in the field, let him not go back to take his coat.

19 And woe to them that are with child, and that give suck in those days.

20 But pray that your flight be not in the winter, or on the sabbath.

21 For there shall be then great tribulation, such as hath not been from the beginning of the world until now, neither shall be.

22 And unless those days had been shortened, no flesh should be saved: but for the sake of the elect those days shall be shortened.

23 Then if any man shall say to you: Lo here is Christ, or there, do not believe him.

24 For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect.

25 Behold I have told it to you, beforehand.

26 If therefore they shall say to you: Behold he is in the desert, go ye not out: Behold he is in the closets, believe it not.

27 For as lightning cometh out of the east, and appeareth even into the west: so shall the coming of the Son of man be.

28 Wheresoever the body shall be, there shall the eagles also be gathered together.

29 And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be moved:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all tribes of the earth mourn: and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with much power and majesty.

31 And he shall send his angels with a trumpet, and a great voice: and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the farthest parts of the heavens to the utmost bounds of them.

32 And from the fig tree learn a parable: When the branch thereof is now tender, and the leaves come forth, you know that summer is nigh.

33 So you also, when you shall see all these things, know ye that it is nigh, even at the doors.

34 Amen I say to you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.

35 Heaven and earth shall pass, but my words shall not pass.

36 But of that day and hour no one knoweth, not the angels of heaven, but the Father alone.

37 And as in the days of Noe, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, even till that day in which Noe entered into the ark,

39 And they knew not till the flood came, and took them all away; so also shall the coming of the Son of man be.

40 Then two shall be in the field: one shall be taken, and one shall be left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill: one shall be taken, and one shall be left.

42 Watch ye therefore, because ye know not what hour your Lord will come.


68 posted on 07/23/2019 7:44:06 AM PDT by Cronos (Re-elect President Trump 2020!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: excalibur21

we’re talking of the “left behind” rapture false concept


69 posted on 07/23/2019 7:44:57 AM PDT by Cronos (Re-elect President Trump 2020!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: Cronos
What I’ve come to realize is that the church of my youth probably had the rapture all wrong.

Yet given credit to whom credit (blame) is due:

“Another suggestion traces the influence to a Jesuit priest, Manuel Lacunza (1731-1801), who was born in Chile but came to Italy in 1767 where he would spend the rest of his life. Posing as a converted Jew (under the pseudonym Juan Josafat Ben Ezra), he wrote, in Spanish, a large apocalyptic work entitled The Coming of the Messiah in Glory and Majesty. The book appeared first in 1811, 10 years after his death. http://www.americancatholic.org/Newsletters/CU/ac1005.asp

Another influence is said to be a Jesuit priest named Francisco Ribera (1537–1591) was a Spanish Jesuit theologian, identified with the Futurist Christian eschatological view.

“In the Dictionary of Premillennial Theology (1997) it is said that Ribera was an Augustinian amillennialist, who may have revived a “mild” form of futurism.[1] His interpretation was then followed by Robert Bellarmine and Thomas Malvenda.[2]

Thomas Brightman, in particular, writing in the early 17th century as an English Protestant, contested Ribera’s views. He argued that the Catholic use of the Vulgate had withheld commentary from the Book of Revelation, and then provided an interpretation avoiding the connection with the Papacy put forward in the historicist point of view.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manuel_Lacunza

Ribera “in the days of the Reformation, first taught that all the events in the book of Revelation were to take place literally during the three and a half years reign of the antichrist way down at the end of the age.” http://www.theologue.org/Theory-JPEby.html (Protestant source, which gives the most lengthy explanation).

70 posted on 07/23/2019 7:45:03 AM PDT by daniel1212 ( Trust the risen Lord Jesus to save you as a damned and destitute sinner + be baptized + follow Him)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cronos

“He won’t “catch you up” - except at the point of your death. There is no such “left behind”

Thanks for sharing your opinion.

I just don’t believe your opinion is true.

Plus the article and its hermeneutics are poor.

As a backup, stand close to me and I’ll grab you at takeoff.

In the end, I’m His, saved, sealed, and assured.

Whether I am raptured or physically die first doesn’t matter. It’s His call.

Either way, I’m His.


71 posted on 07/23/2019 7:46:28 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: dartuser
The destruction of the 2nd Temple was the end of the Jewish world - it ended 2nd Temple Judaism and only 2 Jewish sects - the pharisees and the christ-followers, future modern-Judaism and Christianity - survived.

The book of the Apocalypse, along with Matthew 24 references this Great Tribulation with the destruction of the 2nd Temple ending sacrifices, ending the 2nd temple Jewish world

72 posted on 07/23/2019 7:47:18 AM PDT by Cronos (Re-elect President Trump 2020!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: Cronos

Sorry but scripture teaches both the immanence and transcendence of God.


73 posted on 07/23/2019 7:51:24 AM PDT by circlecity
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 63 | View Replies]

To: ravenwolf
Matthew 24 is about the temple's destruction - it clearly starts and ends with that
14 And this gospel of the kingdom, shall be preached in the whole world, for a testimony to all nations, and then shall the consummation come.

15 When therefore you shall see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place: he that readeth let him understand.

16 Then they that are in Judea, let them flee to the mountains:
- and the Gospel was preached to the "nations" of that time in the sense of what was the known world to Jews - by 69 AD you had St. Thomas in India, you had Nicodemus in Scotland etc. - all the "nations" - many, in fact most of whom no longer exist had heard the Gospel
74 posted on 07/23/2019 7:51:40 AM PDT by Cronos (Re-elect President Trump 2020!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 50 | View Replies]

To: Cronos

The popular version of the rapture came about around the mid-to-late 1800’s; see John Nelson Darby.

It didn’t get widespread coverage till “Late Great Planet Earth” book came out.

Major denominations such as Catholic, Presbyterian, Lutheran didn’t teach it.


75 posted on 07/23/2019 7:51:51 AM PDT by WildHighlander57 ((WildHighlander57 returning after lurking since 2000)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ravenwolf
There are 7 "Kings" - and that you must read the book of the Apocalypse closely
9 And here is the understanding that hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, upon which the woman sitteth, and they are seven kings:

10 Five are fallen, one is, and the other is not yet come: and when he is come, he must remain a short time

John was writing AT HIS TIME that 5 kings had already fallen -- he's not talking about Empires, he's talking about what they saw as "kings" - names the Princeps of the Roman Empire, as numbered by the non-Romans they were

  1. Caesar
  2. Augustus
  3. Tiberius
  4. Caligula
  5. Claudius
  6. Nero
  7. Galba

5 have ALREADY fallen - and John was writing during the time of Nero, the 6-6-6. And Galba reigned for 6 months, "he must remain a short time"

76 posted on 07/23/2019 7:55:51 AM PDT by Cronos (Re-elect President Trump 2020!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 50 | View Replies]

To: ravenwolf
It is not about "empires" - Egypt is never included in the list of empires over Jerusalem. Egypt at the most kept Judaea and Israel as vassal states

your own numbering is

  1. Egypt
  2. Assyria
  3. Babylon
  4. Media-Persia
  5. Greece
  6. Rome

Rome is the 6th! And the Median Empire was co-existent with the Babylonians

Then you next say "the Holy Roman Empire" - that never controlled Jerusalem. It was neither Roman, nor an Empire!

The Roman Empire was not "wounded by the sword but did live" - it died in 1918.

The Pope was taken captive only in the sense of moving to Avalon - your timelines are all off

77 posted on 07/23/2019 8:00:01 AM PDT by Cronos (Re-elect President Trump 2020!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 50 | View Replies]

To: Safrguns

78 posted on 07/23/2019 8:07:09 AM PDT by caww
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Cronos

Preterism is the only eschatological system which stands or falls on the date of a book.


79 posted on 07/23/2019 8:09:30 AM PDT by dartuser
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 72 | View Replies]

To: Cronos

I consider dead works to be a subset of sin because they are sin. Unlike man, God knows motive. And they are missing the mark, which makes them sin.

However, I’m trying to explain, in a few sentences, something that could be explained in a few books. ;)


80 posted on 07/23/2019 8:12:44 AM PDT by cuban leaf
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 55 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 41-6061-8081-100 ... 421-434 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson