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To: ealgeone; daniel1212
There is certainly only one Savior, Our Lord Jesus Christ, the only Redeemer of the World, which is what the Catholic Church has always taught since the first century AD, and still teaches -- and you can look it up.

Being God, He does not NEED anything. He does not NEED His mother Mary, nor all of his great-grands including David the King, Father Abraham, Adam: you see, since Jesus has a mother, He therefore has, according to the flesh, specifically-named great-grandmas like Bathsheba, Ruth, Rahab, Tamar, yes, human grannies going back to Eve)---

He does not need any of that: angels, humans, Moses, Israel, Church, Apostles, brethren, disciples, anything. He can create and save a billion human souls per nanosecond if He wishes.

But that is not, evidently, what He wishes. He created us "without us," but he He evidently does not intend to save us "without us," without associating us effectively with His singular, all-sufficient saving act.

Since we are all members of the Body of Christ, He has chosen that we must need each other IN HIM.

You will find it enlightening to read all of what St. Paul wrote about our role as members of the Body of Christ of which He is Head. Use search-word Body at BibleGateway, from "Pauline Epistles," since these doctrines extend across four or five of Paul's Epistles, and read them all at once.

The impact is mind-blowing.

Notice especially the aspect of "need":

1 Corinthians 12:21
The eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you,” nor again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.”

The Head doesn't say to the feet, "I don't need you."

Paul clearly sees that Christ, the Only Savior, is associating each one of us in His work of salvation--- which we need to pray and work for, with Jesus, our Head:

Romans 10:1
Brothers and sisters, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for them is that they may be saved.

1 Corinthians 7:16
Wife, for all you know, you might save your husband. Husband, for all you know, you might save your wife.

1 Corinthians 9:22
To the weak I became weak, so that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all people, that I might by all means save some.

1 Corinthians 10:33
just as I try to please everyone in everything I do, not seeking my own advantage, but that of many, so that they may be saved.

1 Corinthians 15:1-2
Now I would remind you, brothers and sisters, of the good news that I proclaimed to you, which you in turn received, in which also you stand, through which also you are being saved, ---[if ???]--[IF ???] ---IF you hold firmly to the message that I proclaimed to you--unless you have come to believe in vain.

1 Timothy 4:16
Take heed to yourself, and to the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this you shall both save yourself, and them that hear you.

`

In all of these quotes, who is doing the saving? Jesus Christ Our Lord.

`

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In all of these quotes, through whom is He doing the saving? Through the prayers and works of the members of His Body. Through the cooperation of all of us in Him. Which is to say: Jesus Christ Our Lord.

270 posted on 06/17/2019 9:05:47 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("Let us commend ourselves, and one another, and our whole life, unto Christ Our God.")
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Nice evasive of the issue.
274 posted on 06/17/2019 9:11:48 AM PDT by ealgeone
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To: Mrs. Don-o
--- and you can look it up.

Honey; I have.

And I post regularly what Rome ALLOWS people to believe about the apparition that is called "Mary".

It is this FAILURE to refute the GODESSness of "Mary" that is the DAMNING feature of Rome 'not' teaching otherwise.

404 posted on 06/17/2019 6:51:13 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
--- and you can look it up.

Honey; I have.

And I post regularly what Rome ALLOWS people to believe about the apparition that is called "Mary".

It is this FAILURE to refute the GODESSness of "Mary" that is the DAMNING feature of Rome 'not' teaching otherwise.

405 posted on 06/17/2019 6:51:44 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

He does not NEED His mother ….

Do you?

Does ANY Catholic 'need' Mary?

I've NEVER seen any Catholic in these threads denounce Mariology: excessive or otherwise.


You've managed to type a LOT of stuff about JESUS in this reply without mentioning 'Mary' at all.

Why doesn't your PRACTICE of Catholicism do the same?

Try praying your rosary without saying Hail Mary; Mother of GOD ...

Then get back to us about the taste in your mouth that appears.

407 posted on 06/17/2019 6:56:48 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Mrs. Don-o; ealgeone
you see, since Jesus has a mother, He therefore has, according to the flesh, specifically-named great-grandmas like Bathsheba, Ruth, Rahab, Tamar, yes, human grannies going back to Eve)---

Meaning, consistent with Catholic practice, such should have as formal titles Great....grandmother of God. But such laudatory misleading titles is not the language of Scripture, which is careful to make the distinction btwn the Creator and the created which the common use of the formal title "The Mother of God" (even in preference to "God-bearer") is contrary to.

Paul clearly sees that Christ, the Only Savior, is associating each one of us in His work of salvation--- which we need to pray and work for, with Jesus, our Head:

Which is just what Catholicism and you are inconsistent with. For when naming and describing His chosen instruments, God nowhere comes anywhere close to the supererogatory adulation of the Mary of Catholicism, to whom are ascribed power, glory, praise, and titles which are nowhere given to any created being. Not even Paul, whose passion and sacrificial labor of love and teachings the Holy Spirit provides more on than any other redeemed mortal in the NT.

While a rule of Climatology seems to be that any negative effect that is desired to be attributed to Climate Change, will be, a rule of Catholicism is that any positive attribute that is desired to be attributed to Mary, will be, deity excepting. Even if not "officially, such adulation abounds uncensored.

That very little Mary is said of Mary in Scripture, and what is said is not what the hyper-exaltation of Catholicism, is a proof that Catholicism neither wrote or altered the Bible as some critics allege.

451 posted on 06/17/2019 7:37:23 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Trust the risen Lord Jesus to save you as a damned and destitute sinner + be baptized + follow Him)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
In all of these quotes, through whom is He doing the saving? Through the prayers and works of the members of His Body. Through the cooperation of all of us in Him. Which is to say: Jesus Christ Our Lord.

This is called witnessing in Christianity.

But a point of clarification....it is Jesus who is doing the saving. He may or may not use us...but it is only Him that saves us.

It is sharing the Gospel.

Praying for the lost and sharing the Gospel is what we can do in hopes they might become followers of Christ.

And you will note, Paul's appeal in these examples is regarding people here on earth.

We pray TO God in Heaven.

We ask people ON earth to pray with and for us and for others.

496 posted on 06/18/2019 3:41:34 AM PDT by ealgeone
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