Posted on 11/05/2018 6:07:05 PM PST by Gamecock
According to the Handbook for Today's Catholic, page 47,
"If you die in the love of God but possess any stains of sin, such stains are cleansed away in a purifying process called Purgatory. These stains of sin are primarily the temporal punishment due to venial or mortal sins already forgiven but for which sufficient penance was not done during your lifetime."
The Catholic Catechism, paragraph 1030, says that Purgatory is for "All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation, but after death, they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven."
Among the many doctrines that Catholicism claims to be derived through Sacred Tradition, Purgatory is one of the most interesting and puzzling, particularly to a Protestant. In light of the Pauline doctrine of justification by grace through faith, how is it possible that an afterlife cleansing through punishment is necessary for a Christian who has trusted in Jesus to cleanse him from all His sins? Wasn't Jesus' punishment for our transgressions sufficient? Didn't He take our place in that He suffered our death? It would seem that the words of Christ, "It is finished," (John 19:30) do not mean that the cleansing of our souls was completed on the cross.
Of course, Roman Catholic doctrine states that eternal life is bestowed upon the one who receives baptism (Catechism, par. 1265 - 1266, 1992). It is the stains of the sins committed after baptism and not removed through penance, good works, prayers, the Mass, etc., that are removed in the fires of Purgatory (Handbook for Today's Catholic, page 47).
In light of the doctrine of justification by faith (Rom. 5:1; Rom. 4:5; Rom. 9:30; Acts 13:39; Gal. 2:16), where Jesus bore all of our sins, Purgatory would seem to have no theologically justifiable right to exist. But the Bible alone is not appealed to by Catholic theologians in support of Purgatory. By far, the main support for Purgatory is found in the Catholic doctrine of Sacred Tradition. Nevertheless, what does the Bible say about justification, punishment, and our sins?
What is justification by faith?
To justify means acquit, declare righteous, the opposite of condemn. It means to be not guilty of breaking the Law and to be deemed righteous by the standard of the Law.
God gave the Law, i.e, the Ten Commandments. The Law is a reflection of God's character and it is a perfect standard of righteousness which no one can keep. Since no one is able to keep God's Law, no one can be justified by the Law (Rom. 3:20). There is, therefore, none righteous (Rom. 3:10-12). This is the problem of all people. We have all broken God's Law and are in need of justification, of being declared righteous in God's sight. This can only be done through the Messiah, our sin-bearer.
Jesus is the one who took our place on the cross (1 Pet. 2:24), became sin on our behalf (2 Cor. 5:21), and turned away the wrath of God from us (Rom. 5:9) by being a propitiation (1 John 2:2) that turned away the wrath of God. He was punished in our place. Therefore, Jesus was our substitution. The righteous work of Christ is imputed to the believer by grace (Titus 3:7) and through faith (Rom. 5:1). This justification is a legal action on the part of God reckoning the believer as having satisfied the Law -- all of the Law.
It necessarily follows that to be justified in God's eyes, is to be fully justified. It is not part of the Law that must be satisfied, but all of it. Perfection is the standard. Likewise, it is not part of our sins that were borne by Christ, but all of them. This justification includes all of the sins of the believer (past, present, and future) or else we could not be justified.
What does the Catholic Catechism Say? The Catholic Catechism (paragraphs 1990-1992) says,
"Justification detaches man from sin which contradicts the love of God, and purifies his heart of sin. Justification follows upon God's merciful initiative of offering forgiveness. It reconciles man with God. It frees from the enslavement to sin, and it heals"...."Justification is at the same time the acceptance of God's righteousness through faith in Jesus Christ..." and "...justification is conferred in Baptism, the sacrament of faith. It conforms us to the righteousness of God, who makes us inwardly just by the power of his mercy."
Of particular interest is the reference that "justification is conferred in Baptism, the sacrament of faith." There are many verses in the Bible that deal with baptism and putting on Christ (Gal. 3:27; Rom. 6:1-11). This paper is not intended to discuss the nature of baptism. Nevertheless, I strongly affirm that baptism is a covenant sign for the believer who is already justified by faith and for the children of believers who are under the covenant headship of the family. Baptism is not what justifies a person. Rather,
Justification is a gift by His grace through Jesus (Rom. 3:24) Justification is by grace (Titus 3:7) Justification is by faith (Rom. 3:28; 5:1; Gal. 3:24) Justification is by Jesus' blood (Rom. 5:9). Justification is in the name of the Lord Jesus (1 Cor. 6:11). Justification is not equated with baptism, but with grace, faith, and the blood of Jesus. Jesus said, "It is finished," (John 19:30) Jesus bore our sins in His body, paid the penalty for them, and died. He said, "It is finished." In Greek, the phrase, "It is finished" is one word, tetelestai. In ancient Greek papyri texts that were receipts for taxes, when a debt was paid in full, the word tetelestai was written on the document. This meant that the debt had been paid in full. In other words, Jesus had finished the work of atonement. But not only atonement (to make amends, to make right), but also of propitiation (turning away God's wrath). He had fully paid the debt invoked by the sinner. There was nothing more to be done... It was finished.
Yet, the doctrine of Purgatory, in effect, is saying that we must suffer in Purgatory for sins not covered by baptism and not covered by the cross. It is to say that the work of Christ is not finished and that there are things we must do to complete the sacrificial, cleansing work of Christ. This amounts to earning heaven by our good works, albeit a work of suffering. Additionally, the doctrine of Purgatory implies that a person must atone for his own sins. It implies that the person must do more than what the Law of God requires of him. This is called supererogation.
When Jesus said, "It is finished," all that was necessary for the atonement was concluded and all in Christ were justified. We cannot complete or add to Christ's work through our suffering. Purgatory is not only unnecessary but also it contradicts God's Word.
My doctrine?
I apologize. I read the opening paragraphs and did not see who had posted this. Of course I was answering Roman doctrine not yours.
;-)
Are you suggesting that Catholicism is untruthful?
Actually, Catholicism is not at all false. I am shocked and surprised that someone who identifies as Christian could believe such nonsense.
I would not start with purgatory.
Roman Catholicism teaches their members they have to believe certain things.
If they don't they're not faithful Roman Catholics.
The concept of purgatory is but one example of a false doctrine from Rome.
There are many, many others.
So yes....Roman Catholicism is a false doctrine.
I suppose the easy answer to your question would be, “what has changed since Martin Luther nailed his thesis to the door“?
Is that not exactly what you do?
Certainly not your shameful characterization of Catholics!
And what would you qualify as a ‘shameful characterization’ ?
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bwest wrote:
Certainly not your shameful characterization of Catholics!
Your inference that Catholicism does not lead to Christ. It does.
There is zero evidence in the scriptures that indicate explicitly or implicitly that a person's soul goes thru any kind of fire after death...It makes no biblical sense and it contradicts the scriptures, like most Catholic dogma...Your religion may teach anything it wants of course, but so can the Mormon and Izlamic religions...
We are the Christianity of the Christian bible...The Catholic Church has created its own religion based on its customs, traditions, and laws that are not only outside of the Christian scriptures but in so many places contradict the Christian scriptures...
Either the Catholic religion is not true, or the Bible is not true...How do you think you can defend your religion by arguing against the Christian scriptures???
My comments said nothing of the sort. Troll somewhere else.
From what I’ve learned so far, souls in hell are lost, but souls in Purgatory are saved.
Conceptually, maybe it’s like density, where, like shaking a soil sample in a closed jar full of water, each object seeks its own level.
The greater an object’s density, the lower its level, with the least dense objects floating on top.
I think “love” determines density in this Holy/Divine system the Creator built. Love is what saves a soul and thus gives it boyancy, the love the soul has for Jesus.
After the body dies, that’s what remains, the love, for the Father, Son and Spirit, and for our neighbors, per His Commandments.
The greater the love the soul has, the higher in Heaven, and perhaps in Purgatory, too, the soul rises after the body, the soul’s anchor to earth, dies and returns to dust.
I didn’t set it up, didn’t design it or build it, not at all sure how it works, but conceptually, that’s how I’m trying to understand it. Still learning...
The hardest part of learning? I’m still learning how to not be so full of myself and my own understanding that I have no room or desire for what the Holy Spirit is trying to teach me.
So, learning from the Holy Spirit is very counter to my stubborn nature, and I am very slow learning how to humble and empty myself to Him in this way.
I read this from Jesus earlier and am still thinking about it.
I have called and am still calling everyone to surrender to My Will and repent so that they enter into My Divine Light that will reveal to them the Kingdom of My Father and His Will; malice must be banished from every heart for evil brings death;Lots to think about, but it helps me to understand why I’m “not there yet” in my life and in my thinking.in your days, Vassula, when people still ask you how are they to know whether they are in conformity with My Will, tell them: "if your spirit is not resting in God, but feels worried, crushed and distressed over everything in this world, this is a sign that you have not fully abandoned yourself to God, nor to His Will;
for he who lives in the Will of God, trusts God; if hardships may come on his way, and his life is threatened these will not affect his peace, no, but if you fear for your life, this too, is a sign that you are far from having surrendered your will to God's;
a soul who has no fear, at all, is a soul that has given his will to God; if a soul prays asking God to obtain something, yet does not receive it and is worried for not having received it, that soul is still far from God's Will;
a soul that has surrendered his will to God's Will does not worry, does not fear, and does not live in anxiety for come what may, that soul remains unworried and in tranquillity, accepting God's decision, never losing his peace;
but a person who is only concerned about his life and all material things of this earth, this soul will be continuously living in distress, fear, and worries and not until he gives himself to God's Will, will he be able to live in peace and know God's Will;"
then, only then, will they see straight and acknowledge Me; Scriptures say: "yes, naturally stupid are all men who have not known God and who, from the good things that are seen, have not been able to discover Him-who-is" (Wisdom 13:1);
some will say: "the Lord inflicts on me sufferings and afflictions that are beyond my bearing"; "whatever comes out of My Will, if you are in My grace, you will be able to bear them with a light heart and with fortitude, for love bears with love and grace"; this is what you can tell them;
and if they ask: "but why does the Lord not give me this grace, and the gift of fortitude to bear all that afflicts my soul?"
My answer is: "I want you to give up your will to Mine! You have not surrendered your will to My Will but you are still walking on your own; and worse still, have you not wondered why it is every time you say, 'God made me understand, or told me, to do so and so,' yet these things have gone wrong and not come true?
this too is a sign that you have not completely surrendered to My Will; humble yourself; ask Me to grant you a contrite spirit, and you will rest in Me; then I will reveal to you the Kingdom of My Father;" despair not, for I am always with you; Love loves you;
Life is not unlike Purgatory in this way, apparently for the same reasons.
It did—we disagree. Please do not disparage Catholics.
Thank you.
My advice… If you do not like dissenting or opposing opinions and positions that different from your own… Don’t post on an Internet board.
Telling someone what they can or cannot post… Or should or should not post… Is what Democrats do
Have a great day
I offer the same sage advice to you. Please take it.
You continue to troll.... I don’t give a crap what you right… Or what you think… Or what you post… Just don’t tell other people what they should post
Now take a hike
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