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To: HiTech RedNeck
The idea isn't that of paying for a guilt (which only Christ can do) but of continuing to grow in grace -- in the presence of the Lord.

and that is the concept of purgatory - part of the purification process.

like He would say "well, you didn't get perfect on earth, so I'm going to send you to the eternal scrap heap." - but He won't. He will purify you. You can't save yourself, but you must be completely sinless in heaven, so god purifies you.

211 posted on 11/07/2018 7:50:15 PM PST by Cronos (Obama's dislike of Assad is not based on his brutality but that he isn't a jihadi Moslem)
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To: Cronos
He will purify you. You can't save yourself, but you must be completely sinless in heaven, so god purifies you.

Which the blood of Jesus does.

If the blood of Jesus isn't enough, then God, doing His best, isn't enough.

If something besides the blood of Jesus is needed to *finish* the work of purification, then Jesus died d for nothing.

229 posted on 11/08/2018 3:45:50 PM PST by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith......)
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To: Cronos
You can't save yourself, but you must be completely sinless in heaven, so god purifies you.

Which means that Christians go from being forgiven, regenerated, and made to spiritually positional set together with Christ in Heaven, and having immediate access into the holy of holies to meet with God, (Eph. 2:6; Heb. 10:19) to being excluded from entering Heaven after they ceased from sin at death. (Romans 6:7)

And in RC theology, being completely sinless is not enough, but instead they must become actually good enough to be with God, which is how they are said to be justified in the first place, despite yet having a sinful nature.

Instead, while nothing unclean shall enter God's Holy City, (Rv. 21:27) believers are already washed, sanctified and justified (1Co. 6:11) by effectual faith in the risen Lord Jesus to save them by His sinless shed blood, (Rem. 3;25 — 5:1; Eph. 2:8,9; Titus 3:5) and are already accepted in the Beloved on His account, and made to spiritually sit with Christ in Heaven, (Eph. 1:6; 2:6) and by Him have direct access to God in the holy of holies in prayer. (Heb. 10:19) And who, if they die in faith will go to be with the Lord at death. (Phil 1:23; 2Cor. 5:8 [“we”]; Heb, 12:22,23; 1Cor. 15:51ff'; 1Thess. 4:17)

And with the only suffering after this life being that of the loss of rewards (and the Lord's revelation and disapproval) at the judgment seat of Christ, which one is saved despite the loss of, and which does not occur until the Lord's return and believers resurrection. (1Cor. 3:8ff; 4:5; 2Tim. 4:1,8; Rev.11:18; Mt. 25:31-46; 1Pt. 1:7; 5:4) And which resurrection being the only transformative the believer looks forward to after this life (Rm. 8:23; 2Co. 5:1-4; Phil 3:20,21; 1Jn. 3:2) — not purgatory, which suffering commences at death in order to enable souls to enter Heaven.

263 posted on 11/08/2018 5:31:39 PM PST by daniel1212 (Trust the risen Lord Jesus to save you as a damned and destitute sinner + be baptized + follow Him)
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