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To: Cronos

“At which stage did it stop being “opening the door” and become “opening Pandora’s box”?

“Seriously”

Of course, with your background and beliefs, you see it as a pandora’s Box.

And you lay it at Luther’s feet.

Not surprisingly, I see it differently, since every movement in history has a context and an antecedent that energizes the movement.

In this case, you can lay the energy that launched this at two sources:

1. The long-term corruption of Rome, a whitewashed tomb on the outside, but filled with corruption and bones on the inside.

Luther tried to bring Rome back to God’s Word and did not start out wanting to separate. Rome doubled down on its heresy and did not even want to discuss the Scriptures at the hearing. All they wanted was blind obedience.

Rome had multiple occasions to repent and move back to scripture. They did not. It would have stopped there.

The same can be said for Rome’s prideful breakaway from the original orthodox churches. Rome could have prevented a split, but they insisted on their own supremacy.

As Rome trod down the road of seeing themselves as a superior kingdom that must be obeyed, *they wound the energy that eventually led to the split during the Reformation.*

2. There was also the large context of the Renaissance, that set free mankind to re-examine everything. And so they did.

Through it all, God has preserved for himself a small group who haven’t bowed their knee to Baal. It has always been this way.

The wheat grows with the tares until the harvest.

And we have had the same heresy to deal with in the beginning as we do today.

The only real difference is that Rome used to just slaughter any believer who disagreed - man woman or child.

Thankfully, they have been confined to a historical kingdom of a few acres in Rome.

In the meantime, The Roman Rooster continues to crow, pridefully believing his actions make the sun rise- just as corrupt, and now we see the depth of Rome’s corruption with children.

The orthodox churches avoided many of Rome’s errors, but preserved many.

And God’s plan marches on outside the old wine skins.

Best to you FRiend


186 posted on 11/07/2018 5:55:58 AM PST by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
No, it is not "my background and beliefs" -- you can't seriously believe that the Jehovah's witnesses beliefs are good, can you?


187 posted on 11/07/2018 6:17:25 AM PST by Cronos (Obama's dislike of Assad is not based on his brutality but that he isn't a jihadi Moslem)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
No, it is not "my background and beliefs" -- you can't seriously believe that the Oneness Pentecostal beliefs are good? And they are the ultimate form of reformation (to date - there will be more in the future

188 posted on 11/07/2018 6:19:33 AM PST by Cronos (Obama's dislike of Assad is not based on his brutality but that he isn't a jihadi Moslem)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
And yes, I lay the opening of the door to Oneness Pentecostals and Jehovah's Witnesses at his door because when it comes to "anyone can interpret any which way" it ends up as "a little knowledge of something is a dangerous thing" - instead of opening themselves up fully it becomes "my interpretation is the greatest"

You do realize that the Jehovah's Witnesses are a rehashing of what Arius taught right? This was one man who impetuously became a priest and then didn't read through the earlier heresies who opened up the pandora's box

189 posted on 11/07/2018 6:23:29 AM PST by Cronos (Obama's dislike of Assad is not based on his brutality but that he isn't a jihadi Moslem)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
There was also the large context of the Renaissance,

What Renaissance? The Carolingian renaissance? What do you see as the "setting free mankind to think" as opposed to what came before?

Don't fall for the idea that the Middle Ages were the Dark Ages (a term first used by Gibbon).

During the Middle Ages people like Dante Alighieri and Bede lived. The great art of the Gothic period was present and scientific discoveries. What makes you think that mankind suddenly started discovering thinks anew?

Firstly you are wrong to say "mankind" as the Renaissance never affected the Greek world which had the same as before. It never went to the Islamic lands or India or China

What new thinking do you see in the 1400s that people didn't think in the 1300s?

190 posted on 11/07/2018 6:29:49 AM PST by Cronos (Obama's dislike of Assad is not based on his brutality but that he isn't a jihadi Moslem)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
Through it all, God has preserved for himself a small group who haven’t bowed their knee to Baal. It has always been this way.

Yes, that was Christians as a whole. This logic that "oh, there was corruption and some fell away" is exactly what Muslims use to justify -- they say "the Injil was corrupted, but some people remained true Muslims" -- and so too do Jehovah's Witnesses or Mormons use that logic.

it's flawed logic. God said that His word would not die away, He gave His promise to protect His people, His Church and He hasn't failed

The proof is in the way how the various entities that broke away from orthodoxy died out and never survived.

If God was not with orthodoxy, it would not have survived.

Btw orthodoxy = Catholic+Orthodox+Oriental+Assyrian Churches.

191 posted on 11/07/2018 6:38:31 AM PST by Cronos (Obama's dislike of Assad is not based on his brutality but that he isn't a jihadi Moslem)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
I noticed you wrote about the Orthodox -- you do realize that the EASTERN Orthodox (note that there are the separate "monophysite" Oriental "orthodox" and the Assyrian Church of the east as well):

1. HAVE the concept of purgatory as an intermediate state after death. It believes in the determination of Heaven and Hell as stated in the Bible and that prayer for the dead is necessary.

Eastern Orthodox teaching is that, while all undergo a Particular Judgment immediately after death, neither the just nor the wicked attain the final state of bliss or punishment before the Last Day, with some exceptions for righteous souls like the Theotokos (Blessed Virgin Mary), "who was borne by the angels directly to heaven."

The Eastern Orthodox Church holds that it is necessary to believe in this intermediate after-death state in which souls are perfected and brought to full divinization, a process of growth rather than of punishment, which some Orthodox have called purgatory

2. They believe in the Holy Eucharist

3. They believe in the confession of sins

and so on and so forth. Oriental Churchs as well

195 posted on 11/07/2018 6:43:36 AM PST by Cronos (Obama's dislike of Assad is not based on his brutality but that he isn't a jihadi Moslem)
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