Luther Thought Purgatory was an Open Question?

Beggars All Reformation and Aplogetics ^ | May 04, 2013 | James Swan

[boatbums]

Luther Thought Purgatory was an Open Question?

I came across this link posted on the Catholic Answers Forums: The Hope of Eternal Life. The link is ecumenical in nature, an attempt to smooth over the edges between Roman Catholicism and Lutheranism. This is the excerpt that was posted on CAF:

181. The most explicit discussion of purgatory in the Confessions comes in the 1537 Smalcald Articles, II, 2, which addressed the mass as sacrifice. Besides being itself a violation of the Gospel, the mass as sacrifice "has produced many noxious maggots and the excrement of various idolatries" (§11), the first of which is purgatory. Purgatory, "with all its pomp, requiem Masses, and transactions, is to be regarded as an apparition of the devil for it obscures the chief article..." (§12). Behind Luther's typically extreme language, however, a more nuanced understanding is elaborated. "Concerning the dead we have received neither command nor instruction. For these reasons, it may be best to abandon it [derhalben man es mocht wohl lassen], even if it were neither error nor idolatry" (§12). In a revised version of the article, Luther added a discussion of the authority of Augustine claimed for the doctrine. "When they have given up their purgatorial 'Mass fairs' (something Augustine never dreamed of), then we will discuss with them whether St. Augustine's word, lacking support from Scripture, may be tolerated and whether the dead may be commemorated at the sacrament. It will not do to formulate articles of faith on the basis of the holy Fathers' works or words" (§14f). The existence of purgatory is not dogmatically denied. Rather, 1) the existence of purgatory is not taught by Scripture and thus cannot be binding doctrine, and 2) belief in purgatory is now hopelessly bound up with unacceptable practices. A belief that could be discussed in principle is concretely objectionable because of its associations.

This excerpt is fascinating because it argues Luther believed:

-Purgatory isn't taught in Scripture, but yet may exist.
-Purgatory is only to be avoided because of its associations with "unacceptable practices."
-If these practices were removed, a proper discussion on purgatory could occur.

According to this article here is Luther's view of purgatory: "A belief that could be discussed in principle is concretely objectionable because of its associations." In other words, purgatory, for Luther, was an open question. Get rid of the abuses attached to it, and then it could be discussed.

In regard to the Smalcald Articles, LW states, "Under these circumstances the elector of Saxony instructed Luther in a letter of Dec. 11, 1536, to prepare a statement indicating the articles of faith in which concessions might be made for the sake of peace and the articles in which no concessions could be made."

Here are the two statements from the Smalcald Articles alluded to above. Read them for yourself and see if Luther is willing to make a concession on purgatory for the sake of peace:

Luther states in Article 12:

12 The first is purgatory. They were so occupied with requiem Masses, with vigils, with the weekly, monthly, and yearly celebrations of requiems, with the common week, with All Souls’ Day, and with soul-baths that the Mass was used almost exclusively for the dead although Christ instituted the sacrament for the living alone. Consequently purgatory and all the pomp, services, and business transactions associated with it are to be regarded as nothing else than illusions of the devil, for purgatory, too, is contrary to the fundamental article that Christ alone, and not the work of man, can help souls. Besides, nothing has been commanded or enjoined upon us with reference to the dead. All this may consequently be discarded, apart entirely from the fact that it is error and idolatry.

Luther states in Article 13:

13 The papists here adduce passages from Augustine and some of the Fathers who are said to have written about purgatory. They suppose that we do not understand for what purpose and to what end the authors wrote these passages. St. Augustine (tr-467) does not write that there is a purgatory, nor does he cite any passage of the Scriptures that would constrain him to adopt such an opinion. He leaves it undecided whether or not there is a purgatory and merely mentions that his mother asked that she be remembered at the altar or sacrament. Now, this is nothing but a human opinion of certain individuals and cannot establish an article of faith. That is the prerogative of God alone. 14 But our papists make use of such human opinions to make men believe their shameful, blasphemous, accursed traffic in Masses which are offered for souls in purgatory, etc. They can never demonstrate these things from Augustine. Only when they have abolished their traffic in purgatorial Masses (which St. Augustine never dreamed of) shall we be ready to discuss with them whether statements of St. Augustine are to be accepted when they are without the support of the Scriptures and whether the dead are to be commemorated in the sacrament. 15 It will not do to make articles of faith out of the holy Fathers’ words or works. Otherwise what they ate, how they dressed, and what kind of houses they lived in would have to become articles of faith — as has happened in the case of relics. This means that the Word of God shall establish articles of faith and no one else, not even an angel.

The reading given to these statements by The Hope of Eternal Life downplays the first explicit rejection of purgatory, and sees the real Luther in his willingness to discuss what Augustine meant when "purgatorial masses" are abolished. The problem as I see it, is this reading of the Smalcald Articles isolates these statements from Luther's total written corpus, particularly any writings after the Smalcald Articles.

For instance, in his later sermons on Genesis, Luther states something with similar characteristics to the Smalcald articles. Note particularly the reference to Augustine:

The pope invents four separate places for the dead.The first is the hell of the damned. The second is purgatory, and Thomas Aquinas says that hell is the middle point, so to speak. It is surrounded by purgatory. But around this there is a third circle. It is for unbaptized infants. The fourth circle is the limbo of the fathers. Here the godly dwelt before the resurrection of Christ. These are nothing but dreams and human inventions. Peter and Paul state clearly that the demons move about in the air. With regard to what Paul says see Eph. 2:2, and in 2 Peter 2:4 it is stated that “God did not spare the angels when they sinned but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of nether gloom to be kept until the judgment.” With these statements I rest content, and I do not inquire into things higher than those handed down by the apostles. Of purgatory there is no mention in Holy Scripture; it is a lie of the devil, in order that the papists may have some market days and snares for catching money. The sophists agree with the pope because of Thomas. But Thomas does not concern us. Augustine makes mention of purgatory somewhere, but he speaks very obscurely. Therefore I do not believe that those four separate classes really exist; for Scripture does not speak this way but testifies that the dead saints are gathered to their people, or to those who believe in the Messiah and awaited His coming, just as Adam, together with all his descendants, died in faith in Christ. But how these saints are kept in definite places, we do not know. [Luther, M. (1999, c1966). Vol. 8: Luther's works, vol. 8 : Lectures on Genesis: Chapters 45-50 (J. J. Pelikan, H. C. Oswald and H. T. Lehmann, Ed.). Luther's Works (8:316). Saint Louis: Concordia Publishing House].

Here again Luther explicitly denies purgatory, then mentions the obscurity of Augustine. He then goes on to deny that "four separate classes really exist." In the same volume, Luther refers to "Masses, purgatory, indulgences, and prayers to the dead" as false forms of worship (LW 8:230). Elsewhere in Luther's lectures on Genesis he states,

[P]urgatory is the greatest falsehood, because it is based on ungodliness and unbelief; for they deny that faith saves, and they maintain that satisfaction for sins is the cause of salvation. Therefore he who is in purgatory is in hell itself; for these are his thoughts: “I am a sinner and must render satisfaction for my sins; therefore I shall make a will and shall bequeath a definite amount of money for building churches and for buying prayers and sacrifices for the dead by the monks and priests.” Such people die in a faith in works and have no knowledge of Christ. Indeed, they hate Him. We die in faith in Christ, who died for our sins and rendered satisfaction for us. He is my Bosom, my Paradise, my Comfort, and my Hope. [Luther, M. (1999, c1964). Vol. 4: Luther's works, vol. 4 : Lectures on Genesis: Chapters 21-25 (J. J. Pelikan, H. C. Oswald and H. T. Lehmann, Ed.). Luther's Works (4:315). Saint Louis: Concordia Publishing House].

And here:

The third sphere is that of purgatory, into which neither the damned nor infants enter; it is for those who, while they believe, yet have not rendered satisfaction for their sins. The souls of these are ransomed by means of indulgences. From this source comes the hogwash of indulgences and the entire papistic religion.The fourth place is the limbo of the fathers. They say that Christ descended to this place, broke it open, and set free—not from hell but from the limbo—the fathers who were troubled by the longing and waiting for Christ but were not enduring punishment or torments. With these silly ideas the papists have filled the church and the world. We have overturned all this completely and maintain that unbaptized infants do not have such a sphere. But in what state they are or what becomes of them we commend to the goodness of God. They do not have faith or Baptism; but whether God receives them in an extraordinary manner and gives them faith is not stated in the Word, and we dare not set down anything as certain. To be deprived of the vision of God is hell itself. They admit that they have will and intellect, especially concerning the vision of God and life; but these are falsehoods. And purgatory is the greatest falsehood, because it is based on ungodliness and unbelief; for they deny that faith saves, and they maintain that satisfaction for sins is the cause of salvation. Therefore he who is in purgatory is in hell itself; for these are his thoughts: “I am a sinner and must render satisfaction for my sins; therefore I shall make a will and shall bequeath a definite amount of money for building churches and for buying prayers and sacrifices for the dead by the monks and priests.” Such people die in a faith in works and have no knowledge of Christ. Indeed, they hate Him. We die in faith in Christ, who died for our sins and rendered satisfaction for us. He is my Bosom, my Paradise, my Comfort, and my Hope. [Luther, M. (1999, c1964). Vol. 4: Luther's works, vol. 4 : Lectures on Genesis: Chapters 21-25 (J. J. Pelikan, H. C. Oswald and H. T. Lehmann, Ed.). Luther's Works (4:315). Saint Louis: Concordia Publishing House].

Comments from Luther similar to these could be greatly multiplied, which is why some Lutherans see any affirmation that Luther held purgatory was an "open question" as a lie of the Devil.

[Tell It Right]

Sure thing. I thought FR honored carriage return/line feed characters if there were no html tags. I’ll use html tags from now on.

[21twelve]

Carriage returns (enter) works. But if you copy some things off the net and put them in your post it can mess that up. I think I’ve had that happen to me even after reviewing my comments and think it looks okay before posting.

[ebb tide]

See Post #77.

[Tell It Right]

Thanks. I used to think carriage returns worked on FR. So maybe I haven't lost my mind. :)

I don't think I copy/pasted anything for the post I typed. If I did, it wasn't much of it.

[boatbums]

Descriptive and Clear Bible Passages About Purgatory

No, they really aren't. Only if you START with the preconceived belief in Purgatory and then look for verses that sound like they might support it. Even Catholic apologists today admit that there IS no Scriptural basis for the doctrine. The dogma developed over time and was never taught by the Apostles. Nice try!

[ebb tide]

Where do you think Jesus Christ descended to upon His death?

To have a hi-ball with Lucifer?

[Tell It Right]

JB, thanks for your compliment on my description of purgatory being interesting.

From a usefulness perspective (not so much about theological accuracy from the Bible but about beliefs that help or hurt rubber-meeting-the-road in living our Christian faith), I'm kinda indifferent to purgatory as long as Catholics don't make a big issue about it.

Here in Alabama, when I was young Catholics around here were more about their Catholic beliefs and traditions than about core Christian values. For instance, as regarding purgatory, a lot of Catholics didn't bother witnessing to others because, what's the point? They're gonna get a 2nd chance to get into Heaven anyway (so they believed).

I think that's a bastardization of their original belief in purgatory, which is that all non-believers of Jesus go straight to Hell, while all believers would go to purgatory and suffer for however long, depending on each person's judgement of how they lived their lives, before eventually going to Heaven. So their belief in purgatory when I was young makes me automatically against it because they used it as an excuse to ignore Jesus' great commission.

Now that Catholics (at least in my area) are back to believing the great commission should be done even if there's a purgatory, I have less issue with them believing in a purgatory. It's kind of like I'm an old earther who can get along with young earthers --- as long as young earthers don't go around talking about their young earth beliefs so much around non-believers that they define a Christianity as based on pseudo-science that's not much different from, say, scientology. Imagine you're a non-believer who's thinking about accepting Jesus, but you hear from Christians that "true Christianity" believes the speed of light isn't constant, that people lived on the earth with dinosaurs, and that one dude named Methuselah lived about 1/6th of the entire history of earth's existence. Stuff like that makes a joke out of Christianity....all while the world is repeatedly sending a message that Christians are anti-science. When the young earthers take it to that level, I see it as a major problem. When young earthers talk about it only to fellow believers, it's something to have a friendly debate over during lunch.

That's how I see purgatory as long as the Catholics don't back to using it to keep them from evangelizing or to abuse indulgences.

[metmom]

I never found any reference to it in Scripture.

Scripture teaches about the sufficiency of Christ’s atonement to cleanse us from ALL sin.

Therefore, there is no need for purgatory.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Ebb, I did.

Not a single passage in that article has anything to do with a purgatory.

I was astounded you posted it, as if it was true.

[metmom]

Hebrews 9:27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,

Once you're dead, there are no second chances.

You make your decision here on earth before you die.

Once you're dead, it's a a done deal.

[metmom]

Because there were two gates; one to Hell [which are still closed and will never be breached) and one to the Limbo of the Fathers. which is now Purgatory.

Chapter and verse on that or do you expect us to just take your say so?

[metmom]

In 2 Timothy 1:18, St. Paul prays for Onesiphorus, who has died.

Where do you get that from? There's no where what it says anyone died.

[Tell It Right]

"Where do you think Jesus Christ descended to upon His death?"

What's the basis for believing Jesus descended into Hell? The closest I can think of is 1 Peter 3:18-22.

Note that I included verses 21 and 22. So if you say that verse 19's and 20's description of Jesus going to visit the spirits of people in prison is proof enough that Jesus went to Hell, then surely the next verse (21) is a valid teaching about baptism...even though it describes baptism being an appeal to God for a good conscience.

So I ask you, if I say that verses 19 and 20 mean purgatory exists today (not something that was done away with after Jesus' death and resurrection, maybe as a placeholder for Old Testament deaths), will you concede that the very next couple of New Testament verses also say infant baptism is worthless (because babies ain't old enough to appeal to God for a good conscience)?

[boatbums]

I find it sad how some people are so gullible that they will believe just about anything if there is a mystical or religious aspect to it - even when it contradicts the word of God. You do know that the Devil can appear as an angel of light and do some signs and wonders that deceive people, right?

Jesus chastised people who were looking for signs, "So Jesus said to him, “Unless you see signs and wonders you will not believe.” (John 4:48). He also said, "“Because you have seen Me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” (John 20:29).

[ebb tide]

I don’t expect anything from you.

I’m just stating the truth.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Q

[metmom]

Balderdash.

most of those verse don't even come close to addressing a place like purgatory, and the only one that talks about testing something with fire, is dealing with the quality of our works.

The *fire* tests our WORKS, not US.

Catholics completely miss the point that cleansing from sin is done ONLY through the blood of Jesus.

Hebrews 9:22 Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.

[metmom]

Catholics must be about the most gullible people on the planet to believe every Tom, Dick, and Harry who comes along and relates some apparition.

[ebb tide]

The *fire* tests our WORKS, not US.

What "fire" do you know suffer from, or expect to suffer ffrom?