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To: ealgeone

Do you realize how absurd it would be for mere men to invent the idea that bread and wine are changed substantially at the hand of Jesus’ priests at the words of consecration into the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Jesus Christ, true God and true Man, the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity made incarnate? Do you think it is easy for Catholics to believe this doctrine in the face of human fleshy wisdom which scoffs and ridicules us? Yet we believe it because He said it.

It is something that only God can do and it is something that only God commanded us to believe. It is right there plain as day in the sixth chapter of St. John. For those who have eyes to see. It is called the “Mystery of Faith” because all of our senses tell us it is bread, except our ears, which are docile to the teaching of Jesus Christ. It is captured well in the Pange Lingua of St. Thomas Aquinas.

Have you read any texts by any of the saints about the doctrine of the Holy Eucharist? A good place to start is the Catena Aurea which contains the commentary of the Early Church Fathers and doctors of the Church on the four gospels.

Here is a sample from the Catena Aurea:
From John Chapter 6:
55. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56. He that eats my flesh, and drinks my blood, dwells in me, and I in him. 57. As the living Father has sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eats me, even he shall live by me. 58. This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eats of this bread shall live for ever. 59. These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.

St Augustine’r commentary;
Or thus: Whereas men desire meat and drink to satisfy hunger and thirst, this effect is only really produced by that meat and drink, which makes the receivers of it immortal and incorruptible; i.e. the society of Saints, where is peace and unity, full and perfect. On which account our Lord has chosen for the types of His body and blood, things which become one out of many. Bread is a quantity of grains united into one mass, wine a quantity of grapes squeezed together. Then He explains what it is to eat His body and drink His blood: He that eats My flesh, and drinks My blood, dwells in Me, and I in him. So then to partake of that meat and that drink, is to dwell in Christ and Christ in you. He that dwells not in Christ, and in whom Christ dwells not, neither eats His flesh, nor drinks His blood: but rather eats and drinks the sacrament of it to his own damnation.


138 posted on 06/24/2018 8:04:18 PM PDT by blackpacific
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To: blackpacific
Have you read any texts by any of the saints about the doctrine of the Holy Eucharist?

Yes. And they contradict themselves.

Read John 6 in context and compare it to the remainder of the New Testament.

140 posted on 06/24/2018 8:07:18 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: blackpacific
Do you realize how absurd it would be for mere men to invent the idea that bread and wine are changed substantially at the hand of Jesus’ priests at the words of consecration into the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Jesus Christ, true God and true Man, the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity made incarnate?

It was hard. Took hundreds of years of mixing paganism into Christianity and make it into the actual, physical, body and blood of Christ that includes Himself.

141 posted on 06/24/2018 8:13:11 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: blackpacific
Do you realize how absurd it would be for mere men to invent the idea that bread and wine are changed substantially at the hand of Jesus’ priests at the words of consecration into the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Jesus Christ, true God and true Man, the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity made incarnate?

Yet that is exactly what Rome has done.

If, as Rome claims, Jesus told them to literally eat His flesh and blood as the crucifixion, the disciples should have been there to capture His blood.

Peter gives the correct answer though as to how one comes to know Christ in John 6.

67So Jesus said to the twelve, “You do not want to go away also, do you?”

68Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life.

69“We have believed and have come to know that You are the Holy One of God.” John 6:67-69 NASB

If you compare this passage with the Last Supper as recorded by John you will note the language John uses to record meal at the Last Supper.

26Jesus then answered, “That is the one for whom I shall dip the morsel and give it to him.” So when He had dipped the morsel, He took and gave it to Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot. John 13:26 NASB

Now, compare all of the texts involving the Last Supper.

Matthew 26:26-29 Mark 14:22-24 Luke 22:14-20 John 13:21-26 1 Corinthians 11:23-26
26While they were eating, Jesus took some bread, and after a blessing, He broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, “Take, eat; this is My body.” 27And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you;

28for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins.

29“But I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father’s kingdom.”

22While they were eating, He took some bread, and after a blessing He broke it, and gave it to them, and said, “Take it; this is My body.” 23And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He gave it to them, and they all drank from it.

24And He said to them, “This is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many.

25“Truly I say to you, I will never again drink of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God.”.

14When the hour had come, He reclined at the table, and the apostles with Him. 15And He said to them, “I have earnestly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer; 16for I say to you, I shall never again eat it until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God.” 17And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He said, “Take this and share it among yourselves; 18for I say to you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine from now on until the kingdom of God comes.”19And when He had taken some bread and given thanks, He broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is My body which is given for you;

do this in remembrance of Me.”

20And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood.

21When Jesus had said this, He became troubled in spirit, and testified and said, “Truly, truly, I say to you, that one of you will betray Me.” 22The disciples began looking at one another, at a loss to know of which one He was speaking.23There was reclining on Jesus’ bosom one of His disciples, whom Jesus loved. 24So Simon Peter gestured to him, and said to him, “Tell us who it is of whom He is speaking.” 25He, leaning back thus on Jesus’ bosom, said to Him, “Lord, who is it?”

26Jesus then answered, “That is the one for whom I shall dip the morsel and give it to him.” So when He had dipped the morsel, He took and gave it to Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot.

23For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which He was betrayed took bread; 24and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, “This is My body, which is for you;

do this in remembrance of Me.”

25In the same way He took the cup also after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.”

26For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes.

Key Phrases/words:

Poured out: In the OT the blood sacrifice was never consumed; it was always poured out. We further have the drink offering which was poured out before God as a sacrifice (Ex 29:40, Numbers 15:4-5).

29.11 ἀνάμνησις, εως f: (derivative of ἀναμιμνῄσκω ‘to cause to remember,’ 29.10) the means for causing someone to remember—‘means of remembering, reminder.’ ἀλλ’ ἐν αὐταῖς ἀνάμνησις ἁμαρτιῶν κατ’ ἐνιαυτόν ‘but in those (sacrifices) there is a yearly reminder of sins’ or ‘… that people have sinned’ He 10:3. Louw, J. P., & Nida, E. A. (1996). Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament: based on semantic domains (electronic ed. of the 2nd edition., Vol. 1, p. 347). New York: United Bible Societies.

Transubstantiation is not in there no matter how much you look.

142 posted on 06/24/2018 8:24:36 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: blackpacific
It is called the “Mystery of Faith” because all of our senses tell us it is bread, except our ears, which are docile to the teaching of Jesus Christ.

Catholics call everything they can't understand that's logically inconsistent and downright contradictory a *mystery*.

It's just an out.

God is not illogical nor contradictory and God will not violate His own laws.

163 posted on 06/25/2018 6:41:14 PM PDT by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith......)
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