Posted on 06/23/2018 7:48:28 AM PDT by Salvation
That is the point that is in dispute. I hold that it is not from Paul but from Luther. I have demonstrated that in Galatians Paul is only talking about the works of the Mosaic Law. The same is true in Romans. Luther's attempt (and that of all the Protestants who follow his example) to broaden this to include observance of the moral law of God goes against Scripture.
LOL, good one.
And I would refer you to the historical record of the local persecutions in that day, and assert to you that in fact Paul referred to the pagan days and months and seasons ‘in passing’, then referred his readers to the things the Judaizers were trying to get these once pagan folks to convert to, taking them away from the Gospel of Grace. Even the First Council of the Ekklesia cited the paganism creeping, when the letter instructed them to abstain from blood, from the food sacrificed to idols, and from sexual immorality (the the vestal virgins ring a bell, directly linkable to the pagan worship in groves, with sexual rites included?).
“Is there a Magisterium that protects it as part of a deposit of faith?”
The magisterium can’t even protect the *Vatican* from the plague of gays that infest it - and this under at least 3 “popes.”
Thee Vatican gay drug-fueled sex parties and the gay mafia are regularly written about by newspapers in Rome.
God made Adam and Eve. The magisterium either can’t figure that out, or no one in leadership of your religion cares.
Either shows the failure of this claim of magisterium protection.
For an old man, would you recite for me what you believe sola fide and sola scriptura mean, to you? ... Not a stuffy dictionary of Latin Phrases meaning but the spiritual meaning as you perceive it.
At best, the reference is uncertain. Therefore, it would be unwise to build a theology around it. But if we were to take your reading, and that Paul was advising them to abstain from pagan practices contrary to the moral law of God, I though your position was that salvation was not dependent upon keeping the moral law.
“Sola fide/by faith alone” means that we are saved solely by having faith in Jesus Christ, and is not dependent upon keeping the moral law of God. “Sola scriptura/scripture alone” means that the Bible is the sole rule of faith; that the church does not have any teaching authority which can bind the believer contrary to his private interpretation of scripture.
Paul was seeking to teach the Galatians that 'adding to salvation by faith alone changes the Gospel of Grace in Christ Jesus. No man except Jesus has lives sinless. We are made 'sinless' in God's eyes because of our faith in Jesus as the One Whom GOD sent for our redemption from the sin nature and it is by our faith in HIM that we no longer have sin accountable to us regarding eternal life in GOD. God and Paul through the Holy Spirit inspiration tells us that we have an advocate, JESUS Christ the Righteous Who is faithful and just to forgive us when we sin.
It is indeed my position and that of Paul that we need not and cannot keep the moral law of God while still an untransformed human. At new birth we are as little children. We are in possession of the spark of righteousness from God's Holy Spirit in us, but we learn the way to go in life by His teaching us. Imagine it as the rightness is urged by the Holy Spirit Presence in our human spirit, which is filtered then through our behavior mechanism (the soul, or mind emotions and will) and thus influences our physical vehicle, the body.
Paul used the well known by the GAlatians to reference what the Judaizers were seeking to bring them under the power of. Paul was not teaching a 'do not do this or that' whether Jewish ritual and sacrament or pagan ritual. He was citing what they were familiar with andusing that as a tool to expose the similarity in Judaizing meant to pull them away from the Grace of God in Christ.
Since you are knowledgable in the moral law of God and the Mosaic law, do you contend that someone is able to never transgress either and thus be justified?
Was not the Mosaic Law all encompassing in terms of behavior from the Jewish perspective.
If so, a reading of Romans 5, among other passages, indicates we are indeed saved by faith and only faith in Christ.
What kind of thread do you consider this one to be?
Unidentified apparations: "Do whatever I tell you to do."
As regards the oft-quoted Mt. 16:18, note the following Early Church Fathers promise in the profession of faith of Vatican 1:
• Basil of Seleucia, Oratio 25:
'You are Christ, Son of the living God.'...Now Christ called this confession a rock, and he named the one who confessed it 'Peter,' perceiving the appellation which was suitable to the author of this confession. For this is the solemn rock of religion, this the basis of salvation, this the wall of faith and the foundation of truth: 'For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Christ Jesus.' To whom be glory and power forever. — Oratio XXV.4, M.P.G., Vol. 85, Col. 296-297.
• Bede, Matthaei Evangelium Expositio, 3:
You are Peter and on this rock from which you have taken your name, that is, on myself, I will build my Church, upon that perfection of faith which you confessed I will build my Church by whose society of confession should anyone deviate although in himself he seems to do great things he does not belong to the building of my Church...Metaphorically it is said to him on this rock, that is, the Saviour which you confessed, the Church is to be built, who granted participation to the faithful confessor of his name. — 80Homily 23, M.P.L., Vol. 94, Col. 260. Cited by Karlfried Froehlich, Formen, Footnote #204, p. 156 [unable to verify by me].
• Cassiodorus, Psalm 45.5:
'It will not be moved' is said about the Church to which alone that promise has been given: 'You are Peter and upon this rock I shall build my Church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.' For the Church cannot be moved because it is known to have been founded on that most solid rock, namely, Christ the Lord. — Expositions in the Psalms, Volume 1; Volume 51, Psalm 45.5, p. 455
• Chrysostom (John) [who affirmed Peter was a rock, but here not the rock in Mt. 16:18]:
Therefore He added this, 'And I say unto thee, Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church; that is, on the faith of his confession. — Chrysostom, Homilies on the Gospel of Saint Matthew, Homily LIIl; Philip Schaff, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf110.iii.LII.html)
• Cyril of Alexandria:
When [Peter] wisely and blamelessly confessed his faith to Jesus saying, 'You are Christ, Son of the living God,' Jesus said to divine Peter: 'You are Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church.' Now by the word 'rock', Jesus indicated, I think, the immoveable faith of the disciple.”. — Cyril Commentary on Isaiah 4.2.
• Origen, Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew (Book XII):
“For a rock is every disciple of Christ of whom those drank who drank of the spiritual rock which followed them, 1 Corinthians 10:4 and upon every such rock is built every word of the church, and the polity in accordance with it; for in each of the perfect, who have the combination of words and deeds and thoughts which fill up the blessedness, is the church built by God.'
“For all bear the surname ‘rock’ who are the imitators of Christ, that is, of the spiritual rock which followed those who are being saved, that they may drink from it the spiritual draught. But these bear the surname of rock just as Christ does. But also as members of Christ deriving their surname from Him they are called Christians, and from the rock, Peters.” — Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew (Book XII), sect. 10,11 ( http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/101612.htm)
• Hilary of Potier, On the Trinity (Book II):
Thus our one immovable foundation, our one blissful rock of faith, is the confession from Peter's mouth, Thou art the Son of the living God. On it we can base an answer to every objection with which perverted ingenuity or embittered treachery may assail the truth."-- (Hilary of Potier, On the Trinity (Book II), para 23; Philip Schaff, editor, The Nicene & Post Nicene Fathers Series 2, Vol 9.
but it MUST be used along with Catholic traditions and teachings or folks will NEVER understand it!
Please post the list of them again; as I cannot seem to find my older one I had.
Thanx
I thought them guys were already in heaven!!??!!
Who are the Dead in Christ then??
13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope.
14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.
15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.
16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.
I'm encouraged! How 'bout the rest y'all???
Us blind squirrels have to have a keen sense of smell.
half way...
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