Roman Catholic Bible Study Methods Illustrated
Posted on 06/23/2018 7:48:28 AM PDT by Salvation
That has worked well...
Call no man Father...
Not to mention the great leveling field of learning the Catechism so well.
I think the LETTER that the One True Church officials wrote in Acts chapter 15 should definitely clear this matter up.
Acts 15
The Council at Jerusalem
1 Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: "Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved." 2 This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question. 3 The church sent them on their way, and as they traveled through Phoenicia and Samaria, they told how the Gentiles had been converted. This news made all the believers very glad. 4 When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and elders, to whom they reported everything God had done through them.5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, "The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses."
6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: "Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are."
12 The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. 13 When they finished, James spoke up. "Brothers," he said, "listen to me. 14 Simon has described to us how God first intervened to choose a people for his name from the Gentiles. 15 The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:
16 "'After this I will return
and rebuild David's fallen tent.
Its ruins I will rebuild,
and I will restore it,
17 that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
even all the Gentiles who bear my name,
says the Lord, who does these things'
18 things known from long ago.19 "It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath."
The Council's Letter to Gentile Believers
22 Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, men who were leaders among the believers. 23 With them they sent the following letter:The apostles and elders, your brothers,
To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:
Greetings.
24 We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25 So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. 28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.
Farewell.
30 So the men were sent off and went down to Antioch, where they gathered the church together and delivered the letter. 31 The people read it and were glad for its encouraging message. 32 Judas and Silas, who themselves were prophets, said much to encourage and strengthen the believers. 33 After spending some time there, they were sent off by the believers with the blessing of peace to return to those who had sent them. [34] 35 But Paul and Barnabas remained in Antioch, where they and many others taught and preached the word of the Lord.
Disagreement Between Paul and Barnabas
36 Some time later Paul said to Barnabas, "Let us go back and visit the believers in all the towns where we preached the word of the Lord and see how they are doing." 37 Barnabas wanted to take John, also called Mark, with them, 38 but Paul did not think it wise to take him, because he had deserted them in Pamphylia and had not continued with them in the work. 39 They had such a sharp disagreement that they parted company. Barnabas took Mark and sailed for Cyprus, 40 but Paul chose Silas and left, commended by the believers to the grace of the Lord. 41 He went through Syria and Cilicia, strengthening the churches.
Acts 15 Version 1.6
The Council at Fresno...
1 Certain Catholics came from all across the world to FreeRepublic and were trying to convince the believers: "Unless you are Catechized, according to the custom taught by Rome, you cannot be saved." 2 This brought Elsie and Metmom ETAL into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Elsie and Metmom were appointed, along with some other believers, to lurk on FR to see the Catholics and NON about this question. 3 The Holy Spirit sent them on their way, and as they traveled through the Religion Forum, they told how the NON-Catholics had been converted. This news made all the Protestants and lurkers very glad. 4 When they came to FR, they were scorned by members of the ONE TRUE church, to whom they reported everything God had done through them.5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Catholics stood up and said, "The Protestants must be baptisted correctly and required to keep the laws of Rome!"
6 The posters met to consider this question. 7 After much discussion, Metmom got up and addressed them: "Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Protestants might hear from our fingers the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Protestants a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are."
12 The whole of FR became silent (Yeah; THAT's gonna happen!) as they listened to Elsie and Metmom telling about the signs and wonders God had done among the Protestants. 13 When they finished, Boatbums spoke up. "Brothers," she said, "listen to me. 14 MGinTN has described to us how God first intervened to choose a people for his name from the Gentiles. 15 The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:
16 "'After this I will return
and rebuild Rome's fallen tent.
Its ruins I will rebuild,
and I will restore it,
17 that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
even all the Protestants who bear my name,
says the Lord, who does these things'
18 things known from long ago.19 "It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Protestants who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from vision and apparations, from Brown Scapulas, from the endless repetitions of the ROSARY and from so-called blood. 21 For the laws of Rome has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the sanctuaries on every Sunday."
The Council's Letter to Gentile Believers
22 Then the posters and lurkers, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Fresno with Mark17 and Tennessee Nana. They chose Daniel1212 (called Wise) and eagleone, and Luircin, Mark17; as well as aMorePerfectUnion; folks who were leaders among the believers. 23 With them they sent the following letter:The apostles and elders, your brothers,
To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:
Greetings.
24 We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25 So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. 28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.
Farewell.
30 So the men were sent off and continued to post on FR, where they gathered the people together and delivered the GOSPEL. 31 The people (most all except ebb tide, piusv, Salvation; Steelfish; Mrs. Don-o and Vlademir998) read it and were glad for its encouraging message.
Do you mean PROT caucuses?
Or any post that a PROT might have posted?
I'm not clear on what you mean here.
I’ve read this; somewhere...
Thus, while being careful not to harshly judge those who do not follow this non-required custom, many can joyfully take it up again and encourage others to do so.
Neither. Is that clear enough? I don’t go posting and arguing on protestant based threads. In other words I don’t read them or comment on them. If it’s a thread about fishing, I might post on it if by accident a protestant may have posted it, that’s hard to tell.
“I am dismissing you, and I sincerely hope to never see a post from you again, as I can guarantee that you will see none of mine on Protestant posts.”
I think we’ve heard that proclamation before...
You mean no affect at all? 😁😆 I used to call some men father, but that was in the last century. 👎
One of the rare times a Roman Catholic refers to their members as Christian. It is usually the Roman Catholic church they identify with....not the Savior Himself.
And to mhginten's point of Roman Catholicism not being Christian.
He is correct. Rome has departed the NT Gospel for another Gospel.
The sanctioning of the worship of Mary by prayers TO her, kneeling before idols of her, equating her abilities to those of the Holy Spirit and Christ, the belief in the apparitions claiming to be Mary promising escape from the Hell-fire for those wearing the Scapular or the Miraculous Medal.
The Mass where Christ has to be "re-presented" as a continual sacrifice, but without blood, which is not really a sacrifice all in contradiction of the New Testament.
The belief in venial and mortal sins which is not found in the NT, the belief in indulgences to help "pay" for your "temporal" guilt, the Treasury of Merit, prayers for the dead, purgatory.
I'm sure we can go on, but you get the idea.
And as to the comments of harassing people....all we have seen from you is harassment and name calling. You've not offered one substantial contribution to these threads.
You’re leaving Free Republic??
I completely agree and it's quite ironic that you should point it out.
The traditions of the:
One,
True,
Holy,
Catholic and
Apostolic
CHURCH
founded by Christ Jesus
are witnessed and attested to by its:
Holy mother Mary("Do whatever He tells you") and
all of its Fathers,
Doctors,
Martyrs and
Saints.
From which MEN do your traditions come
Luther, Calvin, Zwilgni...
or do six five pals cut and paste their chaotic and incomprehensible "dogma" together just as they are posting it?
7
I also see you are one of one or two Roman Catholics on this thread. Where are your friends??
Yup, the traditions of Catholicism do NOT impress God.
Man made stuff never does.
I’ve never seen the fascination/obsession that Roman Catholics have with Luther.
I think your translation is part of the problem. I will place the Douay-Rheims alongside the passages you cited for comparison:
Rev 11:11, “And after three days and a half, the spirit of life from God entered into them. And they stood upon their feet, and great fear fell upon them that saw them.”
11But after the three and a half days, the breath of life from God came into them, and they stood on their feet; and great fear fell upon those who were watching them.
Job 49, “Perishing by the blast of God, and consumed by the spirit of his wrath.”
“By the breath of God they perish, And by the blast of His anger they come to an end. Job 4:9
2 Thess 2:8, “ And then that wicked one shall be revealed whom the Lord Jesus shall kill with the spirit of his mouth; and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming”
“Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; 2 Thessalonians 2:8
Ezek 21:31, “And I will pour out upon thee my indignation: in the fire of my rage will I blow upon thee, and will give thee into the hands of men that are brutish and contrive thy destruction. “
‘I will pour out My indignation on you; I will blow on you with the fire of My wrath, and I will give you into the hand of brutal men, skilled in destruction. Ezekiel 21:31
Is 11::4, “But he shall judge the poor with justice, and shall reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: land he shall strike the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips he shall slay the wicked.”
But with righteousness He will judge the poor, And decide with fairness for the afflicted of the earth; And He will strike the earth with the rod of His mouth, And with the breath of His lips He will slay the wicked. Isaiah 11:4
2 Timothy 3:16, “All scripture, inspired of God, is profitable to teach, to reprove, to correct, to instruct in justice, [17] That the man of God may be perfect, furnished to every good work.”
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
The fascination is not with Luther himself, but with the novel errors that he introduced that have lead Christians away from the faith proclaimed in the Bible and taught by the Apostles. We mention Luther because it is from him, and not from the Bible, that Protestant thought is derived.
Roman Catholic Bible Study Methods Illustrated
Why won’t you answer my question about whether you believe the Risen Christ has a heart? You’ve said He has no blood. It’s a yes-no question. Not hard.
********
You want me to prove that Catholics have the gift of Faith, given to them by the Holy Spirit in Baptism, by which they are able to faithfully interpret the Sacred Scriptures, which they lovingly assembled for you?
Do you really think this could be done without writing several volumes? What type of proof do you want? A demonstrative proof? A statistical proof? Do you have any idea what you are asking for? I know how to answer it, but the answer will not satisfy. Here goes.
The problem with a demonstrative proof, and this is true in Theology or philosophy or geometry, to have a demonstrative proof one needs to have something prior, like a first principle, from which other truths are argued to as conclusions. So, for example, Euclid argues from the first principles of Geometry to prove the Pythagorean Theorem in his first book. It is a beautiful process to behold. When one is well founded in philosophy, one can argue from true first principles to true conclusions safely without wandering off the highway as Aristotle puts it. When one argues for the existence of God, one is at a disadvantage because there is nothing prior to God, there is no first principle that precedes God. So when St. Thomas assembled the Five Ways to “prove” the existence of God, none of those proofs were demonstrative. They were arguments from effects to cause, which are by definition weak and not satisfying.
When it comes to the virtue of true religion, there is nothing prior to the gift of Faith. There is not something we have first and then the gift of Faith flows from that. For me to “prove” that Catholics have the gift of Faith would require something prior, which does not exist. God of course is prior to all things and it is from Him that we receive the gift, but it is not clear to me how one could prove via demonstration that it is God Who gave us this gift?
So, like St. Thomas’ Five Ways, we are reduced to “proving” cause by it effects. This is inherently not satisfying. But it is the best we can do. You have probably seen this on FR before. Look for marks of the True Faith. Is it apostolic? Is it holy? Is it one? Is it universal (catholic)?
I mentioned on this thread that the 12 Apostles are all buried in Catholic churches, usually cathedrals or basilicas. Don’t you think it would be odd if every one of Jesus chosen 12 is buried in the foundations of Catholic churches, but as some here on FR like to smack their lips and say “Catholics are not Christian”, don’t you think it odd that their remains are all on Catholic ground? I mean, when you go to Arlington Cemetary, don’t you get goosebumps when walking among the graves of those who gave all for our freedom in the US of A? The Apostles, except for John the Beloved, they were all martryed for Christ, for the freedom and exultation of His Church, and they are honored in the Catholic Church as heroes.
I could go on, but the gist of the line of argument here is first from effect to cause, and then assuming the opposite conclusion is true, pursuing it to a ridiculous conclusion (aka reduction to the absurd). This type of argument can be found in numerous books. While not satisfying, it is the best we can do.
The long and short of it is that you don’t know how either side interprets Scripture because you can’t read minds.
You just threw out a statement hoping something would stick.
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