Posted on 06/23/2018 7:48:28 AM PDT by Salvation
It was hard. Took hundreds of years of mixing paganism into Christianity and make it into the actual, physical, body and blood of Christ that includes Himself.
Yet that is exactly what Rome has done.
If, as Rome claims, Jesus told them to literally eat His flesh and blood as the crucifixion, the disciples should have been there to capture His blood.
Peter gives the correct answer though as to how one comes to know Christ in John 6.
67So Jesus said to the twelve, “You do not want to go away also, do you?”
68Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life.
69“We have believed and have come to know that You are the Holy One of God.” John 6:67-69 NASB
If you compare this passage with the Last Supper as recorded by John you will note the language John uses to record meal at the Last Supper.
26Jesus then answered, “That is the one for whom I shall dip the morsel and give it to him.” So when He had dipped the morsel, He took and gave it to Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot. John 13:26 NASB
Now, compare all of the texts involving the Last Supper.
| Matthew 26:26-29 | Mark 14:22-24 | Luke 22:14-20 | John 13:21-26 | 1 Corinthians 11:23-26 |
| 26While they were eating, Jesus took some bread, and after a blessing, He broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, “Take, eat; this is My body.” 27And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you; 28for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins. 29“But I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father’s kingdom.” |
22While they were eating, He took some bread, and after a blessing He broke it, and gave it to them, and said, “Take it; this is My body.” 23And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He gave it to them, and they all drank from it. 24And He said to them, “This is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many. 25“Truly I say to you, I will never again drink of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God.”. |
14When the hour had come, He reclined at the table, and the apostles with Him. 15And He said to them, “I have earnestly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer; 16for I say to you, I shall never again eat it until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God.” 17And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He said, “Take this and share it among yourselves; 18for I say to you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine from now on until the kingdom of God comes.”19And when He had taken some bread and given thanks, He broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” 20And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood. |
21When Jesus had said this, He became troubled in spirit, and testified and said, “Truly, truly, I say to you, that one of you will betray Me.” 22The disciples began looking at one another, at a loss to know of which one He was speaking.23There was reclining on Jesus’ bosom one of His disciples, whom Jesus loved. 24So Simon Peter gestured to him, and said to him, “Tell us who it is of whom He is speaking.” 25He, leaning back thus on Jesus’ bosom, said to Him, “Lord, who is it?” 26Jesus then answered, “That is the one for whom I shall dip the morsel and give it to him.” So when He had dipped the morsel, He took and gave it to Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot. |
23For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which He was betrayed took bread; 24and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, “This is My body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” 25In the same way He took the cup also after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.” 26For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes. |
Key Phrases/words:
Poured out: In the OT the blood sacrifice was never consumed; it was always poured out. We further have the drink offering which was poured out before God as a sacrifice (Ex 29:40, Numbers 15:4-5).
29.11 ἀνάμνησις, εως f: (derivative of ἀναμιμνῄσκω ‘to cause to remember,’ 29.10) the means for causing someone to remember—‘means of remembering, reminder.’ ἀλλ’ ἐν αὐταῖς ἀνάμνησις ἁμαρτιῶν κατ’ ἐνιαυτόν ‘but in those (sacrifices) there is a yearly reminder of sins’ or ‘… that people have sinned’ He 10:3. Louw, J. P., & Nida, E. A. (1996). Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament: based on semantic domains (electronic ed. of the 2nd edition., Vol. 1, p. 347). New York: United Bible Societies.
Transubstantiation is not in there no matter how much you look.
Very nice summary!
We consume his glorified body. It is not dead.
Those prohibitiions you listed from the Old Covenant have to do with drinking the blood of animals.
Unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you have no life in you.
You have never read the Early Church Fathers then? Was St. Bede, St. Hillary, St. Augustine, St. John Damascens, St Athanasius, were they all pagans also?
So when was Christianity pure from evil pagan influences? When did it change? Did your pastor tell you it was when the first Christian king came to power? Or was it earlier? How is it that the Church, which was entrusted with the care of the sacred deposit of Faith and the guidance of the Holy Spirit went astray so quickly? Did Jesus come to save only one generation?
Which ones?
Jesus Christ instituted the Sacaments, not the church.
Just as the word “transubstantiation” is not in the sacred scriptures, neither is the word “trinity”, but that is not an argument against either reality.
It is not either/or it is both/and. Not hard at all.
There are so many riches in writings of the Early Church Fathers. Try this text:
Yes we do. By His choice. For our benefit. For the benefit of all mankind.
However, the Most High does not live in houses made by human hands. As the prophet says: ‘Heaven is My throne and the earth is My footstool. What kind of house will you build for Me, says the Lord, or where will My place of repose be? (Acts 7:48,49)
Tabernacles are temporary resting places for Jesus, His desire is to be with the children of men. An old Belgian missionary once told us that when he was a missionary in China, families would travel three days by foot to attend mass, which they could do only rarely on major feast days. When the communists took over China they declared the Catholic Benedictine monks enemies of the state, they forbid them from saying mass, and they decreed that they must either leave or die. These families showed up and were told by the monks that there was no more mass, no more confession, no more sacraments, that they must turn around and go home. The good priest wept when he told this story, as did the beautiful Chinese Catholic farmers who went home weeping.
Psalm 42:
Judge me, O God, and distinguish my cause from the nation that is not holy: deliver me from the unjust and deceitful man. [2] For thou art God my strength: why hast thou cast me off? and why do I go sorrowful whilst the enemy afflicteth me? [3] Send forth thy light and thy truth: they have conducted me, and brought me unto thy holy hill, and into thy tabernacles. [4] And I will go in to the altar of God: to God who giveth joy to my youth. [5] To thee, O God my God, I will give praise upon the harp: why art thou sad, O my soul? and why dost thou disquiet me?
[6] Hope in God, for I will still give praise to him: the salvation of my countenance, and my God.
Psalm 25:
[6] I will wash my hands among the innocent; and will compass thy altar, O Lord: [7] That I may hear the voice of thy praise: and tell of all thy wondrous works. [8] I have loved, O Lord, the beauty of thy house; and the place where thy glory dwelleth. [9] Take not away my soul, O God, with the wicked: nor my life with bloody men: [10] In whose hands are iniquities: their right hand is filled with gifts.
[11] But as for me, I have walked in my innocence: redeem me, and have mercy on me. [12] My foot hath stood in the direct way: in the churches I will bless thee, O Lord.
Yes, the only other time that God breathed on man is when he formed Adam from the slime of the Earth in breathed into his nostrils the breath of life.
And not one of these ECFs writings were ever declared Scripture by the NT Church. Not one.
Further, when they are opposed to one of Rome's other doctrines, do you still cite the ECF or just say they were in error because it doesn't line up with Rome's beliefs?
By not adhering to Scripture as the sole source of doctrine you're having to jump between which ECF you want to believe on the various doctrines of Rome.
Additionally the door is left open for any new false doctrine to be introduced such as the Fifth Marian Dogma currently under consideration.
Wow...what a lack of understanding of the New Testament.
the mystery that was hidden for ages and generations but is now revealed to His saints, to whom God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. (Colossians 1;26,27)
I pray that out of the riches of His glory, He may strengthen you with power through His Spirit in your inner being, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. (Ephesians 3:16,17)
In Him the whole building is fitted together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord. And in Him you too are being built together into a dwelling place for God in His Spirit. (Ephesians 2:21,22)
I have.
Please note the dates.
Please note the heresy that arrived before the death of John the Apostle, as delineated in Revelation.
Clearly you do not, or it would be so bright that you couldn't even look at it.
Instead of pretending it has glory, using a monstrance, you would be blinded and fall down.
It is very strange that you can't physically identify it is flesh and blood and can't see it glorified.
Exactly 2.
Baptism and the Lord's Supper.
The rest Rome added.
That is correct, for it, and its companion teachings such as Hebrews 10:25-39, is referring to having "wickedly departed" from God, which David could say he did not do, 2 Samuel 22:22) and prayed God would keep Him from the "great transgression." Ps. 19:13)
Such are those who are often reproved, but impenitently continue in will-full sin, or like Judas, make a definite will-full decision to recant the faith they once definitely will-fully professed, which is in contrast to those who struggle with a besetting sin, (Heb. 12:1) or sin even as David did, somehow subduing his conscience, but repent with "godly sorrow" when convicted of God, as David did. which often takes chastisement. (2 Corinthians 7:9,10; 1Co. 11:32)
A lot of this would go against Paul's writings in Romans and other places that indicate the believer is saved and does not lose their salvation.
The believer is indeed saved and does not lose their salvation, but are warned as believers against denying the faith, (1Tim. 5:8) and effectively becoming unbelievers, of "departing from the living God," (Heb. 3:12) and drawing back to perdition, (Heb. 10:38,39) making Christ to profit them nothing, of no effect, being fallen from the grace whereby Christ had set them free. (Galatians 5:1-5)
As effectual faith in conversion appropriated justification by grace, so denying the faith in recanting like as he once truly confessed it forfeits that status. Salvation is by faith, but by grace one is motivated and enabled to believe, and God then continues to work to motivate and enable us to obey Him, and thus we cannot really claim any merit, to the glory of God!
But we can resist God, (Prov. 1:20-32) and for which is what we must take credit for.
OSAS proponents typically attempt to argue that such verses as cited above were not addressed to believers, but which is manifestly contextually false, and we are to go wherever the Truth leads.
I would like to be able to say that the warning as hypothetical, but I do not see that as tenable.
"Take, eat, this is My body/blood" is either literal or metaphorical as regards the contention at hand, and muddying the waters by claiming it can be both (since there are figurative aspects in the literal (which itself is not plainly literal, but resorts to the metaphysical) theology will not do. And only the metaphorical position easily conflates with the test of Scripture without contradiction .
There are so many riches in writings of the Early Church Fathers. Try this text:
Which is a fatal error, for the uninspired writings of post-apostolic men simply cannot be determinitive of what the NT church believed, and the only wholly inspired substantive authoritative record of what the NT church believed (including how they understood the OT and gospels) is Scripture, especially Acts thru Revelation.
While the writings of ETCS can have some value, as can the writings in the Jewish Talmud, both to varying degrees reflect the progressive accretion of traditions of men, and even the veracity of inspired preaching of the apostles was subject to testing by Scripture as supreme.
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