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To: boatbums
Whenever I read Catholic apologists, I’m fascinated by the near-total absence of robust exegetical arguments.

LOL. When I read the Protestant apologetic against Catholicism, "robust exegesis" is not what I'm seeing. More like a robust disregard for either textual or cultural context, exhibited during a frantic search for prooftexts to rip out of context and use as weapons, while the texts that might support the Catholic view are simply swept under the carpet.

His "off the top of his head" reason number 3 means he doesn't understand the difference between "Pope Francis' off-the-cuff opinions" and the "teaching of the church".

Number 4 tells me he doesn't understand that the "post Vatican II ethos" has even less authority than "Pope Francis' off-the-cuff opinions". (The actual documents of Vatican II, IMO, clearly teach the same thing as Pius IX and other Popes before him: only invincible ignorance can excuse lack of Christian faith.)

Broadly Protestant notions of justification are clearly taught by the Bible.

Where does the Bible teach that justifying grace is only forensic and external, i.e., that justification means a change in how God views us, not also a change God works in us at exactly the same time?

23 posted on 06/22/2018 5:30:38 AM PDT by Campion
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To: Campion
LOL. When I read the Protestant apologetic against Catholicism, "robust exegesis" is not what I'm seeing. More like a robust disregard for either textual or cultural context, exhibited during a frantic search for prooftexts to rip out of context and use as weapons, while the texts that might support the Catholic view are simply swept under the carpet.

I've not encountered on a regular basis the Roman Catholic who uses/understands the textual or cultural context of the New Testament.

Additionally, when I've shown passages in their proper context that RCs cite to justify their doctrines, that do not support their position, they are ignored.

It is the rare post where a Roman Catholic has demonstrated applying the passage in question in proper context and understanding the Greek behind the passage.

When I've shown how the ECFs contradict each other Roman Catholics ignore that.

I will cite the Immaculate Conception as one of examples when one of Roman Catholicism's own sources admit there is no direct or categorical Scriptural support for the doctrine nor is there unanimous consent among the ECFs on the dogma.....yet Roman Catholicism continues to double down on the dogma.

40 posted on 06/22/2018 6:40:45 AM PDT by ealgeone
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To: Campion
When I read the Protestant apologetic against Catholicism, "robust exegesis" is not what I'm seeing. More like a robust disregard for either textual or cultural context, exhibited during a frantic search for prooftexts to rip out of context and use as weapons, while the texts that might support the Catholic view are simply swept under the carpet.

What difference does it make what a book of myths and fables says about anything?

75 posted on 06/22/2018 10:53:52 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Against Theocracy? Repeal the laws against murder!)
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To: Campion
More like a robust disregard for either textual or cultural context, exhibited during a frantic search for prooftexts to rip out of context and use as weapons, while the texts that might support the Catholic view are simply swept under the carpet.

Sure there HAS to be a DUMMIES book on:

How to Cook an Albatross.


 

 
 
 



 

The way it's written:

 
Galatians 4:4-5
But when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those under the law, that we might receive adoption to sonship.
 
 
 
The way Rome teaches it:
 
Galatians 4:4-5
But when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a....
 
Co-Redemptrix, 
Ark of the Covenant,
Beloved daughter of the Father,
Favoured Daughter of the Father,
Cause of Our Joy,
Cause of our Salvation ,
Comfort of the Afflicted,
Destroyer of Heresy,
Ever-virgin ,
Gate of Heaven,
God-bearer,
Great Mother,
Health of the Sick,
Heavenly Chariot,
Help of Christians,
Holy Mary,
Holy Mother of God,
Holy Virgin of Virgins,
House of Gold,
Joy of the Just,
Majesty,
Mirror of Justice,
Morning Star,
Most Holy,
Mother Admirable,
Mother Inviolate,
Mother Most Amiable,
Mother Most Chaste,
Mother Most Pure,
Mother of Christ,
Mother of Divine Grace,
Mother of God,
Mother of Good Counsel,
Mother of Mercy,
Mother of Orphans,
Mother of Our Creator,
Mother of Our Redeemer,
Mother of Sorrows,
Mother of the Church,
Mother of the Poor,
Mother of the Word,
Mother of the Word Incarnate,
Mother Thrice Admirable,
Mother Undefiled,
Mystical Rose,
Nova Eva (the New Eve),
Our Lady of Compassion,
Our Lady of Confidence,
Our Lady of Victory,
Our Lady, Star of the Sea,
Our Mother of Perpetual Help,
Queen Assumed Into Heaven,
Queen Conceived Without Original Sin,
Queen of All Saints,
Queen of Angels,
Queen of Apostles,
Queen of Confessors,
Queen of Families,
Queen of Heaven,
Queen of Martyrs,
Queen of Patriarchs,
Queen of Peace,
Queen of Prophets,
Queen of the Most Holy Rosary,
Queen of Virgins,
Ravisher of Hearts,
Refuge of Sinners,
Resplendant car,
Seat of Wisdom,
She Who Shows the Way,
Singular Vessel of Devotion,
Spiritual Vessel,
Spouse of the Holy Spirit,
Sovereign Mistress of the Angels, 
Tabernacle of the Lord,
Temple of the Holy Spirit,
Temple of the Most Holy Trinity,
Throne of Wisdom,
Tower of David,
Tower of Ivory,
Treasure House of God's Graces,
Untier of Knots,
Vessel of Honor,
Virgin God-bearer,
Virgin Most Faithful,
Virgin Most Merciful,
Virgin Most Powerful,
Virgin Most Prudent,
Virgin Most Renowned,
Virgin Most Venerable
Virgin of virgins,                           born under the law, to HELP redeem those under the law, that we might receive adoption to sonship; sooner or later; and not spend TOO much time in Purgatory.
 

 
 

118 posted on 06/23/2018 4:16:47 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Campion
LOL. When I read the Protestant apologetic against Catholicism, "robust exegesis" is not what I'm seeing. More like a robust disregard for either textual or cultural context, exhibited during a frantic search for prooftexts to rip out of context and use as weapons, while the texts that might support the Catholic view are simply swept under the carpet.

Examples please of that as a norm, as in refuting such Catholic distinctives as post 172 describes, versus the egregious extrapolation or erroneous exegesis RCs resort to in attempting to support these as being what the NT church believed.

Number 4 tells me he doesn't understand that the "post Vatican II ethos" has even less authority than "Pope Francis' off-the-cuff opinions". (The actual documents of Vatican II, IMO, clearly teach the same thing as Pius IX and other Popes before him: only invincible ignorance can excuse lack of Christian faith.)

Don't you mean lack of Catholic faith, such as is not in submission to the pope, and abiding in the bosom of the Catholic church?

Of just how do you interpret Lumen Gentium? Do Muslims worship the same God as Catholics? Are properly baptized RCs saved if they convert to and live and die as faithful evangelicals, trusting the Divine Son of God to save them by efficacious faith, but not believing in the act of baptism effecting regeneration, or the Catholic Eucharist, the papacy, etc.?

Where does the Bible teach that justifying grace is only forensic and external, i.e., that justification means a change in how God views us, not also a change God works in us at exactly the same time?

It doesn't. Where did documents such as the Westminster Confession teach that conversion and its justification by faith leaves the convert just as he was before, versus heart-purifying justifying faith not being alone but effecting obedience, though the effect is not the cause of actual justification?

235 posted on 06/23/2018 3:37:27 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Trust the risen Lord Jesus to save you as a damned and destitute sinner + be baptized + follow Him)
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