Posted on 06/19/2018 7:48:22 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
Ross Douthat published a column late last May with the imperious title "The Baptist Apocalypse." Rather than prophetic piece, this seems to have served as a guidebook. Following Douthat's column, a new coterie swept into power in the Southern Baptist Convention during its annual meeting in Dallas (June 12-13).
The apocalypse Douthat predicted did not lead to the coming of a lord and savior. What the Baptists got was a changing of the guard. The old guard was white, male, conservative, Southern, and charming. The new guard is white, male, conservative, Southern, and cold. I have interacted with both groups. The main difference between them is that I trusted the old guard on issues like LGBT challenges to religious liberty, and the old guard returned my calls. I can say no such thing about the new guard.
Therein lies quite a tale. Sit back and enjoy.
What went into the Douthat column?
A lot of scandals, firings, social media wars, and social-justice campaigning prompted Douthat's article. He tells New York Times readers that these public controversies formed a righteous storm of reform pointing to the promise of change. This prefaced public statements by J.D. Greear, the North Carolina pastor who campaigned to become the next SBC president by claiming he would bring reform to the SBC. He was elected by nearly 70% of the messengers' votes.
Like so many people in Douthat's circle of intellectuals, the name of Russell Moore pops up as a harbinger of hope – well, at least, according to the Douthat wing of American politics. Here is a quote from Douthat's article:
[The old guard] represent[s] – again, to generalize – the more pro-Trump old guard in the Baptist world, with a strong inclination toward various forms of chauvinism and Christian nationalism.
(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...
Opposite of Catholicism: extreme autonomy versus extreme hierarchy. Both problematic, I opine.
Baptist ping
Being Southern Baptist most of my life, I can tell you the organization is moving too far into the Calvinistic camp.
During Sunday offering, I want to put a note in the offering plate that reads: “Sorry. Nothing this week. Must have been pre-destined”. But my wife won’t let me.
We get all those SBC gurus in our church all the time...Al Mohler, Bob Russell, a bunch of professors from the Seminary, etc (that’s because I’m in Louisville and so are they).
The seminaries are Calvinistic. 99% of the butts in the pew haven’t heard of Calvin and would be shocked at “TULIP”. At least, at the “ULI” part.
Oddly enough, I don’t know if I’ve ever been in a SBC church whose pastor had gone to an SBC seminary. I find ‘our’ seminaries ridiculous and out of touch.
“The seminaries are Calvinistic. 99% of the butts in the pew haven’t heard of Calvin and would be shocked at “TULIP”. At least, at the “ULI” part.”
Yep. They are Calvinistic. This seems to have become more prevalent in the last 15 or so years. I keep asking them where the passage is that reads, “For God so loved SOME of the world...” is located.
You’re right...I’m guessing 99% don’t even know about Calvin. But I find the idea extremely depressing and attempts to subliminally limit the power of God.
“Oddly enough, I don’t know if I’ve ever been in a SBC church whose pastor had gone to an SBC seminary. I find ‘our’ seminaries ridiculous and out of touch.”
That’s actually a good observation. Now that I think of it, there’s a lot of SB churches “out in the sticks” where I don’t think the pastors went to seminary. And that may be a good thing. But then again, the churches are supposed to be independent and a loose collection of “theological similarities”.
The Baptist churches I’ve gone to around here have pastors who are SB Theological Seminary graduates. But then again, I’m stuck smack dab in the “nest” of them. LOL
I asked a Sunday School teacher who was a strong Calvinist if I should throw away my T-shirt that says “Jesus Loves You” and get one that says, “Jesus Probably DOESN’T Love you!”, or “Jesus MIGHT Love You!”
I’ve concluded there is a reason God has chosen to reveal Himself in the Bible and not in a Systematic Theology text. God wants us to know HIM, not theories ABOUT Him!
I talked with my pastor about how the SBC does resolutions. The resolutions put up for a vote don’t come from normal Baptists. They mostly come - and all are ‘vetted’ - by the professional Baptists, so to speak. The folks inside the convention power system, which has no power over any SBC church but a LOT of power over SBC convention meetings!
In the year he went, only about 10% of those attending even went to the sessions where the resolutions were voted on. The time between when he first saw the wording and the vote was minimal - minutes, not hours. When he raised a concern about some of the wording, he was told, “That’s interesting...now, time for a vote!”
He views the resolutions as games played by the professional SBC staff. The SBC professionals then present them to the press as reflecting the beliefs of the member churches. In reality, almost no one in the SBC votes on them. Not sure I’m remembering the numbers right, but I think he said less than 500 people voted when he was there (a few years ago). The resolution passed by a margin under 30, and it was then presented as representing the views of all the SBC!
For reference, there were 9,000 people at the Convention, and over 45,000 CHURCHES in the SBC!
The SBC professionals are a shame to the churches in the SBC. The seminaries tend to be the base of support for the professional Baptists. I’d like to see our church pull out of the SBC, but I’m the only person in the congregation (apart from the pastor) who has even READ the resolutions! The annual conventions are just a game played by a small handful. They have less value than a high school student council.
And the professional Baptists are as arrogant and self-centered as a high school student council...
:>(
Ross Douthat... figures... an establishment hack of the David Brooks, Michael Gerson, Bill Kristol ilk who likes to study the primitive religious rites of those who didn’t go to Harvard.
They have none. It is a voluntary association by both parties. Each church owns or rents its own properties and pays its own staff.
If you don’t like the Baptist church you attend, there’s another one down the road. Or start your own and seek fellowship with the SBC, or another convention, or be an independent Baptist church.
Well, there was a ‘heads up’ in the Bible about a “falling away” in the last days. At least the church I go to still uses Scriptures as the basis for sermons. Still emphasizes sin, repentance, Jesus. But honestly, if I could find somewhere else and it was strong scripturally, I’d bail out on the SBs.
The closest I can find are Pentecostal “tongue speakers” and I don’t see this as Scriptural—especially if no one understands it.
I guess I’ll try the Snake Handlers. But they’re really way out there in the sticks of Kentucky. LOL! Maybe get invited to some good hunting opportunities if I join one. LOL
Actually, I don’t want the SBC messing with my church. They do so much good and I like the church just the way it is.
Well, if the church doesn’t want to belong to the SBC, they don’t have to. And in any event, The Southern Baptist Convention speaks only for the convention, not the state conventions or other associations. None of them speak for the individual churches.
Well, if the church doesn’t want to belong to the SBC, they don’t have to. And in any event, The Southern Baptist Convention speaks only for the convention, not the state conventions or other associations. None of them speak for the individual churches.
Just saw your posting, and it is uncalled for. The article is a report from a soldier of Christ in the primary front of the "culture war," detailing demonic gains in the leadership of the largest Prot denomination, and which testifies to the same liberal tactics proxy servants of the devil have used in the past, and in the educational and political realm.
By itself, dismissing this article, which comes after a report confirmatory of the takeover from the Atlantic that was posted here, as being akin to the refuse of an animal renders you as a mocker of the ongoing spiritual battle.
What you relate is a compelling argument against female suffrage.
The SBC gets the money to pay these "professionals" from the member churches, I assume. I'm thinking the congregations need to put some heat on the pastors, as to "WHY is our church funding this silliness? WHY do you expect ME to tolerate MY tithe money going to this?"
There's an old saying, give him enough heat, and he will see the light...
I’m interested in finding out how much power they have over each individual church.
A local church can be “disfellowshipped” and forced to take Southern Baptist out of the church name.
Yes, and we esteem the KJV and the old Baptism Hymnal classics, as these :
All wonderful hymns!
The hymnals in my dad’s Baptist churches usually were, “Great Hymns Of The Faith”. It’s my favorite but I don’t think it’s being printed any longer.
See Flaming Conservative’s post 17.
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