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To: Popman

Romans 5:12 tells us that all have sinned; that includes even those yet to be born. Even babies need a Savior, because even babies have sin; Scripture teaches that and I have to believe it.

Let me quote something else from Scripture.

“18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, 19 in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison, 20 because they formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water. 21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him.”

Also: “Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”

Also: “In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.”

Also: “He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.”

Scripture says it. In the last quote; Jesus himself says it. And so I have to believe it. It would be a sad thing for me to condemn Rome for ignoring Scripture because it contradicts their theology, only to ignore Scripture that contradicts what I want to believe.

To answer your question, Rome goes too far in specifying only ‘original sin;’ baptism removes all sin because baptism is inexorably linked to the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. To be baptized is not ‘instead of’ believing in Jesus, or ‘in addition to’ believing in Jesus; the Lord gives baptism as a gift that makes salvation our own.

Rome, however goes too far in turning baptism into a work that we have to do in order to get saved. (Otherwise how would the thief on the cross next to Jesus be saved? And Paul simply preached in some places and allowed others to baptize.) But to ignore what Scripture says about baptism is a very, very dangerous thing to do, because it ignores the Word of God in favor of the word of me.


328 posted on 06/09/2018 9:59:49 AM PDT by Luircin
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To: Luircin
Also: “He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.”

Scripture says it. In the last quote; Jesus himself says it. And so I have to believe it. It would be a sad thing for me to condemn Rome for ignoring Scripture because it contradicts their theology, only to ignore Scripture that contradicts what I want to believe.

I understand your dilemma over this issue.

However, note what Jesus does and does not say in the passage above.

He who believes and is baptized will be saved.

Then He says he who does not believe will be condemned....no mention of baptism.

Belief in Him is the key.

I do believe we come to Christ in faith/belief, then we follow that up with baptism. The faith is what saves us the baptism is the outward confirmation of the belief in Christ.

But if baptism is what saves us then the thief on the cross is out of luck as would be anyone who professes faith in Christ on their deathbed.

We have too many examples in the NT that shows we come to salvation through faith in Christ and then we are baptized.

330 posted on 06/09/2018 10:14:04 AM PDT by ealgeone
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To: Luircin
Romans 5:12 tells us that all have sinned; that includes even those yet to be born.

NOT MARY!!!

You HERETIC!!!


--Wannabe_Catholic_Dude(Hail Mary)

470 posted on 06/10/2018 5:04:36 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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