Posted on 06/08/2018 8:54:57 AM PDT by Salvation
There are a lot of “solos” sung by our Protestant brethren: sola fide (saved by faith alone), sola Scriptura (Scripture alone is the rule of faith), and sola gratia (grace alone). Generally, one ought to be leery of claims that things work “alone.” Typically, many things work together in harmony; things are interrelated. Very seldom is anyone or anything really “alone.”
The problem with “solos” emerges (it seems to me) in our mind, where it is possible to separate things out; but just because we can separate something out in our mind does not mean that we can do so in reality.
Consider, for a moment, a candle’s flame. In my mind, I can separate the heat of the flame from its light, but I could never put a knife into the flame and put the heat of the flame on one side of it and the light on the other. In reality, the heat and light are inseparable—so together as to be one.
I would like to argue that it is the same with things like faith and works, grace and transformation, Scripture and the Church. We can separate all these things out in our mind, but in reality, they are one. Attempting to separate them from what they belong to leads to grave distortions and to the thing in question no longer being what it is claimed to be. Rather, it becomes an abstraction that exists only on a blackboard or in the mind of a theologian.
Let’s look at the three main “solos” of Protestant theology. I am aware that there are non-Catholic readers of this blog, so please understand that my objections are made with respect. I am also aware that in a short blog I may oversimplify, and thus I welcome additions, clarifications, etc. in the comments section.
Solo 1: Faith alone (sola fide) – For 400 years, Catholics and Protestants have debated the question of faith and works. In this matter, we must each avoid caricaturing the other’s position. Catholics do not and never have taught that we are saved by works. For Heaven’s sake, we baptize infants! We fought off the Pelagians. But neither do Protestants mean by “faith” a purely intellectual acceptance of the existence of God, as many Catholics think that they do.
What concerns us here is the detachment of faith from works that the phrase “faith alone” implies. Let me ask, what is faith without works? Can you point to it? Is it visible? Introduce me to someone who has real faith but no works. I don’t think one can be found. About the only example I can think of is a baptized infant, but that’s a Catholic thing! Most Baptists and Evangelicals who sing the solos reject infant baptism.
Hence it seems that faith alone is something of an abstraction. Faith is something that can only be separated from works in our minds. If faith is a transformative relationship with Jesus Christ, we cannot enter into that relationship while remaining unchanged. This change affects our behavior, our works. Even in the case of infants, it is possible to argue that they are changed and do have “works”; it’s just that they are not easily observed.
Scripture affirms that faith is never alone, that such a concept is an abstraction. Faith without works is dead (James 2:26). Faith without works is not faith at all because faith does not exist by itself; it is always present with and causes works through love. Galatians 5:6 says, For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision; but faith working through love. Hence faith works not alone but through love. Further, as Paul states in 1 Corinthians 13:2, if I have all faith so as to move mountains but do not have love, I am nothing.
Hence faith alone is the null set. True faith is never alone; it bears the fruit of love and the works of holiness. Faith ignites love and works through it. Beware of the solo “faith alone” and ask where faith, all by itself, can be found.
Solo 2: Grace alone (sola gratia) – By its very nature grace changes us. Again, show me grace apart from works. Grace without works is an abstraction. It cannot be found apart from its effects. In our mind it may exist as an idea, but in reality, grace is never alone.
Grace builds on nature and transforms it. It engages the person who responds to its urges and gifts. If grace is real, it will have its effects and cannot be found alone or apart from works. It cannot be found apart from a real flesh-and-blood human who is manifesting its effects.
Solo 3: Scripture alone (sola Scriptura) – Beware those who say, “sola Scriptura!” This is the claim that Scripture alone is the measure of faith and the sole authority for the Christian, that there is no need for a Church and no authority in the Church, that there is only authority in the Scripture.
There are several problems with this.
First, Scripture as we know it (with the full New Testament) was not fully assembled and agreed upon until the 4th century.
It was Catholic bishops, in union with the Pope, who made the decision as to which books belonged in the Bible. The early Christians could not possibly have lived by sola scriptura because the Scriptures were not even fully written in the earliest years. And although collected and largely completed in written form by 100 AD, the set of books and letters that actually made up the New Testament was not agreed upon until the 4th century.
Second, until recently most people could not read.
Given this, it seems strange that God would make, as the sole rule of faith, a book that people had to read on their own. Even today, large numbers of people in the world cannot read well. Hence, Scripture was not necessarily a read text, but rather one that most people heard and experienced in and with the Church through her preaching, liturgy, art, architecture, stained glass, passion plays, and so forth.
Third, and most important, if all you have is a book, then that book needs to be interpreted accurately.
Without a valid and recognized interpreter, the book can serve to divide more than to unite. Is this not the experience of Protestantism, which now has tens of thousands of denominations all claiming to read the same Bible but interpreting it in rather different manners?
The problem is, if no one is Pope then everyone is Pope! Protestant “soloists” claim that anyone, alone with a Bible and the Holy Spirit, can authentically interpret Scripture. Well then, why does the Holy Spirit tell some people that baptism is necessary for salvation and others that it is not necessary? Why does the Holy Spirit tell some that the Eucharist really is Christ’s Body and Blood and others that it is only a symbol? Why does the Holy Spirit say to some Protestants, “Once saved, always saved” and to others, “No”?
So, it seems clear that Scripture is not meant to be alone. Scripture itself says this in 2 Peter 3:16: our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, also wrote to you, Our Brother Paul speaking of these things [the Last things] as he does in all his letters. In them there are some things hard to understand that the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction, just as they do the other scriptures. Hence Scripture itself warns that it is quite possible to misinterpret Scripture.
Where is the truth to be found? The Scriptures once again answer this: you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth (1 Tim 3:15).
Hence Scripture is not to be read alone. It is a document of the Lord through the Church and must be read in the context of the Church and with the Church’s authoritative interpretation and Tradition. As this passage from Timothy says, the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth. The Bible is a Church book and thus is not meant to be read apart from the Church that received the authority to publish it from God Himself. Scripture is the most authoritative and precious document of the Church, but it emanates from the Church’s Tradition and must be understood in the light of it.
Thus, the problems of “singing solo” seem to boil down to the fact that if we separate what God has joined we end up with an abstraction, something that exists only in the mind but in reality, cannot be found alone.
Here is a brief video in which Fr. Robert Barron ponders the Protestant point of view that every baptized Christian has the right to authoritatively interpret the Word of God.sss
They listen to preaching, read the Bible or other books or they can seek the Truth or be inspired by God. Very few are struck down by Jesus like St Paul. And perhaps there more ways to learn to believe.
Believing is a process and we grow in our belief and love of God.
For children, including infants, it is the parent’s responsibility to teach their children about God and they too can grow in their belief in God. Or they can reject a belief in God
You are talking about an intellectual belief...That's not the belief of salvation...Belief in God/Jesus is not a lifelong endeavor...It's a one time deal...Belief in Jesus is a trust that you know he is your Saviour and will get you to heaven...
Psa 84:12 O LORD of hosts, blessed is the man that trusteth in thee.
Isa 12:2 Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.
Act 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Act 16:32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
Act 16:33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
Act 16:34 And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.
Believe
πιστεύω
pisteuō pist-yoo'-o
From G4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), that is, credit; by implication to entrust (especially one’s spiritual well being to Christ): - believe (-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with.
For infants, they do not have personal sins, yet they receive forgiveness of original sin passed down from Adam.
So what, do they get their original sin back when they are a little older, when the men have to toil to make a living and the women go thru pain during childbirth???
No problem!
“For me, it’s a self-evident truth ...”
That is the problem. You can’t be your own source of truth unless you are God.
“Even the stories in the Bible, like Jonah in the whale, for example, are not fully accepted, but just acknowledged as stories in the Bible.”
CHRIST accepted it as true.
When Rome passes dogmas that contradict Scripture and/or are not found in Scripture then Rome has erred.
See the Immaculate Conception.
The Fifth Marian dogma when it is passed will be yet another one.
Roman Catholicism has a problem with a lot of the OT accounts such as these.
Otoh, the Catholics and the Orthodox appear to have a much richer understanding of, and participation with, the spiritual/supernatural world of the Holy Family, angels and saints.
Rome has gone way to far with this in equating goddess like powers to Mary.
In Roman Catholicism Mary has all but replaced the Holy Spirit as the Helper.
Further, Rome allows prayers to the dead, praying to departed saints, reliance upon pieces of cloth or medals for deliverance from the Hell-fire, etc. None are sanctioned in the NT.
Paul, in Romans, is addressing the demands of the Judaizers that the Gentiles must be circumcised and obey the Mosaic Law. He is not pitting works against faith. If you are to believe in the entirety of Scripture then believe what Paul says here. Everything that he writes in Romans after this is an explanation of this.
Paul is speaking of the works of the law in order to reject any system of salvation on the basis of attaining to a standard of obedience by which one may be saved,
Act 6:9 Then there arose certain of the synagogue, which is called the synagogue of the Libertines, Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Catholics try to convince us and each other that the 'law' is the ceremonial law...We can see here that the law includes the 10 Commandments...When Paul speaks of the 'law' he is referring to the whole law, not just the ceremonial law...
Besides the fallacy of this, as explained, btwn what the pope - the chief interpreter - teaches by word or deed, and the interpretation of the chief interpreter by RCs, then many RC act as if there is no pope.
Pope Sends Birthday Greetings to ‘Father of Liberation Theology’ 6/9/2018, 8:59:50 PM · by marshmallow Crux ^ | 6/7/18 | Junno Arocho Esteves ROME - Pope Francis wished a happy 90th birthday to the “father of liberation theology” and thanked him for his contributions to the Catholic Church and his love for the poor. As Dominican Father Gustavo Gutierrez prepared to celebrate his birthday June 8, Pope Francis assured him of his “prayers in this significant moment in your life.”
No problem. May your trip see the light and guidance of the Lord
I’m probably wrong about this, but you appear to spend far too much time thinking about Rome and what you think Rome has done to your understanding.
Me personally? I’m far more interested in what “powers” Jesus and His Father graced Mother Mary with, what Jesus feels about Her and what He wants from us regarding His Mother.
To me, Mother Mary is yet another of the many Holy Mysteries that, honestly, I don’t think we are able to solve or fully understand, but are simply for us to marvel about, instead.
Unless you believe infants need salvation thru no fault of their own, then they are in no need of baptism. The requirements of which is wholehearted repentant faith, (Acts 2:38; 8:36,37) which they cannot provide. Scripture does not teach proxy salvation, though we can be instrumental in bringing one to Christ.
Otoh, the Catholics and the Orthodox appear to have a much richer understanding of, and participation with, the spiritual/supernatural world of the Holy Family, angels and saints.
You could say the occult had even more, which does not make it right, and both are contrary to what is manifest i n the only wholly inspired substantive authoritative record of what the NT church believed (including how they understood the OT and gospels) is Scripture, especially Acts thru Revelation.
For one, nowhere are believers shown praying to created beings in Heaven (PTCBIH) or taught to, despite the Spirit inspiring the recording of about 200 prayers, and this being a most basic practice, with there always being plenty of created beings to pray to, and occasions for to do so since the Fall.
All your going to get is that people using the wrong calendar are going to hell and will be falsely accused of all kinds of things, while never telling you what they do actually believe.
Original sin is never taught in Scripture.
It’s a made up concept by the Catholic church for which they then created the solution, water baptism.
Nice racket there.
Maybe, maybe not. While an infant’s works, so to speak, might not appear to you to satisfy the requirements of Baptism, I honestly have no idea what an infant understands or is capable of in that time of life and on the level that Baptism speaks to.
I’ve heard and read stories about what we, as infants, experience and understand, even while in the womb, but have no way to verify such things here and now in/at/on the physical level.
None the less, as puzzle pieces, such things fit together perfectly with all the other pieces I’ve found so far.
Fwiw, I’m glad I was baptized. As luck, or more likely, lack of any money whatsoever, would have it, I was born in a Catholic hospital, and my very first act after breathing was to pee all over the nun/nurse who helped deliver me.
(And, oh, how my mom used to love embarrassing me with that story, bless her heart and soul.)
Anywho, thanks to the First Parents, we all are natural born sinners: born in a sinful world to sinner parents.
I also believe that we are born knowing God, with full memory of our first sight being the Eyes of the One who formed us, but that we “forget” soon after birth.
We are to believe like children. How am I doing so far?
Why?
We’re to follow Jesus, not Mary.
She doesn’t do anything for us and she can’t.
She died a long time ago and her connections with the planet earth have been severed.
None recorded in Scripture.
Ah! Infant baptism! By sprinkling.
In this case, better than immersion.
While in the temporal realm we realize the effects of the beliefs and thus the works of others, for good or evil, yet this is not punishment for our sins, much less the basis for eternal punishment.
Which damnation is always based upon our own works, not that of others.
The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin. (Deuteronomy 24:16)
But the children of the murderers he slew not: according unto that which is written in the book of the law of Moses, wherein the Lord commanded, saying, The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, nor the children be put to death for the fathers; but every man shall be put to death for his own sin. (2 Kings 14:6)
In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children’s teeth are set on edge. But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge. (Jeremiah 31:29-30)
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. (Ezekiel 18:20)
One need not and cannot be forgiven for what he is not guilty of.
Romans 5:12 (Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned) does not teach infants are culpable for sin, nor Psalms 51:5, but although the sinful nature is passed on, yet that nature "is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be," (Romans 8:7) and is not redeemed but is to be mortified, including its thoughts and affections (Col. 3) which for me is a work needing more progress by the grace of God.
I’m not, not even close. I’m just an observer/data taker trying to understand the data and observations.
I borrowed the term “self-evident truth” from the Constitution, because that’s how our many levels of being rationally appeasr to me now.
None the less, I should have said “self-evident theory” to be perfectly accurate.
Thanks!
The issue isn't about faith vs works. I think there is a hair's breath difference between the two in my view.
Rather the issue is about the concept of grace. Catholics cannot understand the Protestant version that grace is simple, ummerited favor of God bestowing His love to us. Grace alone. Instead they have divided grace into two categories; 1) Actual grace which is God giving to all men, and 2) Sanctifying grace which is the process by which one obtains to God and sonship or the means by which one can "fall from grace". While they might make all sorts of attempts to state their view is NOT Semi-Pelagius, it really is. And, they certainly go out of their way in the definition to state that Semi-Pelagius isn't a heretical doctrine so they understand their error.
It is this second view of grace (sanctifying grace) which confuses the distinction between grace and faith. Why even on the Catholic encyclopedia New Advent, they interchange the terms faith and grace. New Advent makes no apologies in stating that their concept of grace is not like those of the early church fathers since the Council of Trent felt a need to "refine" it. But it was not the teaching of the early church fathers.
Grace is not something we do or work to obtain it. It is given to us by God the Father. He raises us from the dead to a newness of life to the praise of His glorious and gracious name. That is grace in a nutshell.
A short but excellent article on the subject and the two views is Sola Gratia by Ligonier
I wonder why Catholicism doesn't understand that what they call "original sin" is, in truth, the old sin nature that passed down from Adam unto all and we sin because it is our nature? Even after the new birth, the old sin nature - though defeated and we are no longer bound to it - remains and we fight an ongoing battle to overcome it through the grace of God. No baptism of any kind will completely obliterate the old sin nature until we die and behold the face of our savior.
Catholicism's doctrine of water baptism only cleansing us from "original sin" ignores the truth that our sin nature NEVER goes away while we are alive in this body of flesh. Baptism does not do away with the sin nature. Only faith in Jesus Christ cleanses us from ALL sin because that is when His blood makes propitiation. Water baptism is an outward act that testifies to our saving faith - in and of itself it is wholly inadequate to save us. Baptizing an innocent infant only gets it wet and probably irritated. Unless there is subsequent faith once the age of accountability happens, the person is not saved. Their baptism as infants did not save them. This is not saying that unbaptized babies won't go to heaven if they die. Limbo was something Catholicism USED TO teach though I think they have changed that now. The grace of God covers the truly innocent.
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