...A Concern for the Protestant “Solos”: Sola Fide, Sola Scriptura, Sola Gratia

Archdiocese of Washington ^ | 06-07-18 | Msgr. Charles Pope

[Elsie]

So quick,metmom, to defend Rome when her version of Jesus is being questioned.P>THIS is what you took away from her reply??

Strange...

[daniel1212]

Scripture was defined and compiled via tradition. Christ never told his disciples to write anything, he told them to preach.

And what did the Lord and His apostles and inspired writers preach and appeal to as the supreme substantive standard?

But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. (Matthew 4:4)

And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures, (Acts 17:2)

For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publickly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ. (Acts 18:28) Mat. 1:22; 2:5,15,17,18; 3:3; 4:4,6,7,10,14,15; 5:17,18,33,38,43; 8:4,17; 9:13; 11:10; 12:3,5,17-21,40,41; 13:14,15,35; 14:3,4,7-9;19:4,5,17-19; 21:4,5,13,16,42; 22:24,29,31,32,37,39,43,44; 23:35;24:15; 26:24,31,54,56; 27:9,10,35; Mark 1:2,44; 7:3,10; 9:12,13; 10:4,5; 11:17; 12:10,19,24,26 13:14; 14:21,47,49; 15:28; Lk. 2:22,23.24; 3:4,5,6; 4:4,6-8,10,12,16,17,18,20,25-27; 5:14; 7:27; 8:10; 10:26,27; 16:29,31; 18:20,31; 19:46; 20:17,18, 28,37,42,43; 22:37; 23:30; 24:25.27,32,44,45,46; Jn. 1:45; 2:17,22; 3:14; 5:39,45-47; 6:31,45; 7:19,22,23,38,42,51,52; 8:5,17; 9:26; 10:34,35; 12:14,15,38-41; 15:25; 17:12; 19:24,28,36,37; 20:9,31; 21:24; Acts 1:20; 2:16-21,25-28,34,35; 3:22,23,25; 4:11,25,26; 7:3,7,27,28,32,33,37,40,42,43,49,50,53; 8:28,30,32,33; 10:43;13:15,27,29,33,39; 15:5,15-17,21; 17:2,11; 18:13.24,28; 21:20,24; 22:12; 23:3,5; 24:14; 26:22; 28:23,26,27; Rom 1:2,17; 2:10-21,31; 4:3,7,17,18,23,24; 5:13; 7:1-3,7,12,14,16; 8:4,36; 9:4,9,12,13,15,17,25-29,33; 10:11,15,19; 11:2-4,8,9,26,27; 12:19,20; 13:8-10; 14:11; 15:3,4,9-12,21; 16:16,26,27; 1Cor. 1:19,31; 2:9; 3:19,20; 4:6; 6:16; 7:39; 9:9,10; 10:7,11,26,28; 14:21,34; 15:3,4,32,45,54,55; 2Cor. 1:13; 2:3,4; 3:7,15; 4:13; 6:2;16; 7:12; 8:15; 9:9; 10:17; 13:1; Gal. 3:6,8,10-13; 4:22,27,30; 5:14; Eph. 3:3,4; (cf. 2Pt. 3:16); Eph. 4:8; 5:31; 6:2,3; (cf. Dt. 5:16); Col. 4:16; 1Thes. 5:27; 1Tim. 5:18; 2Tim. 3:14,16,17; Heb. 1:5,7-13; 2:5-8,12,13; 3:7-11,15; 4:3,4,7; 5:5,6; 6:14; 7:17,21,28; 8:5,8-13; 9:20; 10:5-916,17,28,30,37; 11:18; 12:5,6,12,26,29; 13:5,6,22; James 2:8,23; 4:5; 1Pet. 1:16,24,25; 2:6,7,22; 3:10-12; 5:5,12; 2Pet. 1:20,21; 2:22; 3:1,15,16; 1Jn. 1:4; 2:1,7,8,12,13,21; 5:13; Rev. 1:3,11,19; 2:1,8,12,18; 3:1,7,12,14; 14:13; 19:9; 21:5; 22:6,7;10,18,19 (

And what was the supreme standard to which their words were subject to testing by?

These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. (Acts 17:11)

In addition, such as the apostles could also speak as wholly inspired of God, and provide new revelation, which neither SS preachers nor popes claim to do. And since their words are what Catholics make equal with Scripture, they cannot be so.

And by His appeal to what was written, did not Christ affirm that God manifestly made writing His most-reliable means of preservation? (Exodus 17:14; 34:1,27; Deuteronomy 10:4; 17:18; 27:3; 31:24; Joshua 1:8; 2 Chronicles 34:15,18-19, 30-31) Psalm 19:7-11; 119; John 20:31; Acts 17:11; Revelation 1:1; 20:12, 15; Matthew 4:5-7; 22:29; Luke 24:44,45; Acts 17:11)

And did not Christ tell the Holy Spirit to inspire the writers to pen the revelation of Scripture, which manifests that as written, Scripture became the transcendent supreme standard for obedience and testing and establishing truth claims as the wholly Divinely inspired and assured, Word of God. As is abundantly evidenced Thus the veracity of oral preaching was and is subject to testing by Scripture, and not vice versa.

Thus unless God had told men to pen His word, and made that His most reliable and means of authoritative transmission, there would be no gospel and thus no church.

And inclusion in Scripture is how we know if something of oral transmission is the word of God, not by the uninspired words of popes and councils.

And before there ever was a church that imagined it was essential for the laity to know which writings were of God, a substantial body of wholly Divinely inspired writings had been established as authoritative, to which the NT church appealed to.

[imardmd1]

on reading list

[Elsie]

I always find it amazing how tradition in the RCC tortures scripture to support non biblical theology such as Romans 5 :12

Yet they fail to follow Paul's advice in GALATIANS 5:12!

[Elsie]

Well; his homepage USED to say...

[Elsie]

So let’s say that according to “faith and works,” we believe that Jesus’ work for us paid some of that trillion trillion, and we pay the rest, and we would also need to believe that our own works, done by our own resources apart from faith, can be a currency for paying on that debt.

So THIS is where the Mormons get their Blood Atonement from!

---

http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Blood_Atonement

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_atonement

[metmom]

Since for Catholicism Scripture is reduced to being a abused servant which is compelled to only support Catholicism, and can only mean what she says it does in any conflict, and that church doctrine is said to be supreme, then why expect anything less?

Ouch.....

[Elsie]

Nice little soul you've got here. It'd be a shame if something happened to it.

[metmom]

As usual.

Ignore the Scripture and start with the red herrings and personal attacks.

[Elsie]

Romans 5:12 tells us that all have sinned; that includes even those yet to be born.

NOT MARY!!!

You HERETIC!!!

--Wannabe_Catholic_Dude(Hail Mary)

[Elsie]

I do note in the above link, that SDA’s believe that Jesus is Michael the archangel, which is what the JW’s also believe.

WOW!

I learned something new today!!

I'd thought that SDAs were mere legalists; holding to SABBATH worship; in CLEAR ignorance of Scripture!!!

Romans 14:5

One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike.
Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind.

[Elsie]

What did EBB say above?

[HarleyD]

There are FIVE solas;

1) Sola Scriptura (“Scripture alone”): The Bible alone is our highest authority.

2) Sola Fide (“faith alone”): We are saved through faith alone in Jesus Christ.

3) Sola Gratia (“grace alone”): We are saved by the grace of God alone.

4) Solus Christus (“Christ alone”): Jesus Christ alone is our Lord, Savior, and King.

5) Soli Deo Gloria (“to the glory of God alone”): We live for the glory of God alone.

He failed to say what he felt about #4 and #5.

As to the rest he presents no real argument.

#1) If people didn't read until just recently, how could they have put together the Bible in the 4th century! What a stupid statement to make. Especially given the fact that the Bereans were more noble than those in Thessalonica because they SEARCH THE SCRIPTURES. Does he feel people were just ignorant savages running amok until 600 years ago when the Catholic Church attempted to stop people from reading the scriptures?

#2) Where does he believe our good works of faith generate from exactly? Who exactly is responsible for our good works?

#3) Grace-The author states that "By its very nature grace changes us. Again, show me grace apart from works. Grace without works is an abstraction." He clearly confuses grace and faith. Grace is given to us by God. It isn't anything we WORK for.

Daniel is correct. The Catholic Church believes in a salvation by works belief structure. And if there is any evidence in this it is the concept of grace which the author believes must be obtained from works. He clearly does not know or understand the grace of God.

[Elsie]

...that the Sabbath is Saturday …Anyone using a Spanish calender knows this!

[Elsie]

The now invisible ones.

[daniel1212]

“Broaden” and “Lengthen” imply that there is a standard. Who / what / where is the standard?

There is no appeal to a standard of length, and which would have been given under the Law which detailed such - if Deuteronomy 6:8; 11:18 and Exodus 13:9, 16 were meant to be taken literally - but the censure is against ostentatious prideful display of religiousity as a a matter of fashion. Which also applies to ostentatious clerical garb and royal titles in Catholicism

Length had no standard, and If everyone else had the long phylacteries then the Scribes and Pharisees would not have stood out, but it was the distinctive nature of the phylacteries, and the motive behind them that is reproved, not some violation of length as defined in oral tradition.

And the Jews certainly had and have their holy oral tradition, with its many absurdities and superstitions (as the Babylonian Talmud manifests), and which is no more the word of God than all that Catholicism claims is the oral word of God.

[Elsie]

Well; as I got near to the end; I can see that I've a LOT less than 172 to muddle through; thanks to the efforts of the mod to remove the debris from the San Francisco sidewalks.

I guess I'll have to post

Nyah, nyah, NYAH!!! to remain in the spirit that now seems to be living in the thread.

[ealgeone]

Well; as I got near to the end; I can see that I've a LOT less than 172 to muddle through; thanks to the efforts of the mod to remove the debris from the San Francisco sidewalks.

The San Francisco sidewalks?! LOL!! A good one.

[daniel1212]

Incidentally, I'm curious as to what you believe the process by which Christian scripture was reduced to writing and compiled was.

Christian script-ure was not "reduced to writing," since it was not scripture unless it was written. And writing is God's chosen most-reliable means of long-term preservation. ( Exodus 17:14; 34:1,27; Deuteronomy 10:4; 17:18; 27:3; 31:24; Joshua 1:8; 2 Chronicles 34:15,18-19; Psalm 19:7-11; 119; John 20:31; Acts 17:11; Revelation 1:1; 20:12, 15; Matthew 4:5-7; 22:29; Luke 24:44,45; Acts 17:11)

And before there ever was a church that imagined it was essential for the laity to know which writings were of God, a substantial body of wholly Divinely inspired writings had been established as authoritative, to which the NT church appealed to.

Which establishment was essentially due to their enduring heavenly qualities and attestation, as was the case with men of God, even when rejected by the historical magisterium. It was the laity who held John the baptizer to be a prophet indeed, while those who sat in the seat of Moses did not, and thus rejected his baptism as being of God, and having authority. (Mark 11: 27-33) Likewise they rejected Christ and the church, which began in dissent from the historical magisterium, contrary to the Catholic model.

And inclusion in Scripture is how we know if something of oral transmission is the word of God, not by the uninspired words of popes and councils.

And as i abundantly evidenced , as written, Scripture became the transcendent supreme standard for obedience and testing and establishing truth claims as the wholly Divinely inspired and assured, Word of God. Thus the veracity of oral preaching subject to testing by Scripture, and not vice versa.

It was not because oral tradition preserved the Word of God that brought about a national revival, but because of the wholly inspired-of-God written word:

And Hilkiah answered and said to Shaphan the scribe, I have found the book of the law in the house of the Lord. And Hilkiah delivered the book to Shaphan. (2 Chronicles 34:15)

Then Shaphan the scribe told the king, saying, Hilkiah the priest hath given me a book. And Shaphan read it before the king. And it came to pass, when the king had heard the words of the law, that he rent his clothes. (2 Chronicles 34:18-19)

And the king went up into the house of the Lord, and all the men of Judah, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and the priests, and the Levites, and all the people, great and small: and he read in their ears all the words of the book of the covenant that was found in the house of the Lord. And the king stood in his place, and made a covenant before the Lord, to walk after the Lord, and to keep his commandments, and his testimonies, and his statutes, with all his heart, and with all his soul, to perform the words of the covenant which are written in this book. (2 Chronicles 34:30-31)

[ealgeone]

4) Solus Christus (“Christ alone”): Jesus Christ alone is our Lord, Savior, and King.

5) Soli Deo Gloria (“to the glory of God alone”): We live for the glory of God alone.

********************************

When Rome allows the worship of Mary, the approval of scapular, medals, the myriad writings extolling the virtues of Mary and her "abilities", calling her co-redemptrix, etc....then one can understand why the msgr didn't address these.