Posted on 05/20/2018 9:35:52 PM PDT by ebb tide
According to an article appearing in El Pais, the largest newspaper in Spain, Pope Francis said to a male sex abuse victim that: “God made you gay.” The comments were allegedly made during a meeting between Pope Francis and the victims of Chilean Catholic sex-offender priest Fernando Karadima. One of the men abused by the priest, former seminarian Juan Carlos Cruz, described his meeting with Pope Francis. Jesuit priest James Martin posted a link to the interview on his social media accounts which included a translation of one comment made by the Pope to Cruz:
In his recently published book, “Building a Bridge: How the Catholic Church and the LGBT Community Can Enter into a Relationship of Respect, Compassion, and Sensitivity,” influential Jesuit James Martin repeatedly applauds “The Catechism” for boldly stating that homosexuals must be treated with “respect, compassion and sensitivity” and that “‘every sign of unjust discrimination’ must be avoided.” The message of James Martin outwardly appears compassionate and sensitive, but it’s essentially highly conflicted and confusing. Because James Martin also claims that homosexuals are “born gay.” During a June 16, 2017 Jesuitical podcast, Martin said:
God made you this way. You are wonderfully made, just like Psalm 139 says. You were knit together in your mother’s womb this way, you know, it’s a mystery why you were made this way, but this is part of your identity.
Consequently, Martin denounces the same Catechism for being “needlessly hurtful” towards homosexuals because, in his words, unless Church teachings are modified, those “born gay” are forbidden from ever expressing the “the deepest parts of a person—the part that gives and receives love…”
Therefore, according to Martin, homosexuals were created in a certain way by God and their ability to express love is inherently attached to their sexual orientation. According to the 1986 Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church on the Pastoral Care of Homosexual Persons:
Although the particular inclination of the homosexual person is not a sin, it is a more or less strong tendency ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil; and thus the inclination itself must be seen as an objective disorder.
But, if one accepts the Catechism and the teachings of the Church, why would God make someone with a “disorder” that effects such an integral part of their identity? Either God made a mistake or the teachings are wrong. And as Martin proclaimed during his 2016 commencement address at Gonzaga University:
We look to other people for a roadmap of who we’re supposed to be, when all the direction we need is inside of us, planted by God. Whether you are man or woman, young or old, black, brown or white. Short or tall. Gay, straight, lesbian or transgender, you are beautiful. God does not make crap . . .
The Catechism also states that:
“By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom…they [those with same-sex attraction] can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.”
A belief in the inborn permanency of the homosexual inclination creates a difficult anomaly for those who believe it and identify as “gay.” Jesuit priest and homosexual-advocate John J. McNeill once wrote:
Since most gay people experience their homosexual orientation as a part of creation, if they accept this Church teaching, they must see God as sadistically creating them with an intrinsic orientation to evil. Most gays would prefer to see the Church teaching as wrong, rather than believe God is sadistic.
For this reason, Martin and others have repeatedly made statements such as this:
I’m no theologian, but I would say that some of the language used in the catechism on that topic needs to be updated, given what we know now about homosexuality. Earlier, for example, the catechism says that the homosexual orientation is itself “objectively disordered.” But, as I say in the book, saying that one of the deepest parts of a person — the part that gives and receives love — is disordered is needlessly hurtful. A few weeks ago, I met an Italian theologian who suggested the phrase “differently ordered” might convey that idea more pastorally.
In a completely misguided attempt to appear pastoral, caring, and loving, Martin and those who share his beliefs and methodology abandon the truth and therefore abandon those who they claim to be concerned about. On the very topic of facilitating priests and gay affirmation within the Church, the late Fr. Benedict Groeschel, CFR, wrote:
There are many serious objections to this kind of compassion based on pragmatism and relativism…The most obvious…objection is that such thinking precludes the possibility of moral conversion and true Christian discipleship. Apart from the radical denial of truth, such thinking leaves the person lost in a swamp without a map. It is a most dangerous compassion.
Unfortunately many Catholics with same-sex attraction believe the “born gay” theory and openly promote it in Church. For instance, on July 16, 2017, James Martin, addressed the LGBT ministry “Out at St. Paul” located in New York City at Saint Paul the Apostle Church; he had previously spoken to the group on March 2, 2017. On several occasions, including during his featured presentation at the 2018 Los Angeles Religious Education Congress, Martin has recommended both the Parish and Out at St. Paul (see video interview, and a Facebook live discussion.) In a video series entitled “Owning Our Faith,” featuring various LGBT members from the Out at St. Paul ministry, a “gay” Catholic man said the following:
I think what’s interesting is that the Catholic Church probably thinks that it is accepting of gay people, because its message is ‘gay people exist and we should love them and not discriminate against them. But because the Church also tells gay people essentially that they need to be celibate, what the Church is saying is ‘you cannot live fully. You can be gay but you can’t live that life.’ And so that inherently is discriminatory.
There is no evidence for a biological or genetic determinant for homosexuality; even the very gay-affirmative American Psychological Association can not claim that anyone was “born gay,” according to the APA:
There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay or lesbian orientation. Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors.
In a highly significant study: 46% of the homosexual men in contrast to 7% of the heterosexual men reported homosexual molestation.
Recent misstatements and even “fake news” regarding the teachings of the Catholic Church on homosexuality have caused untold confusion in the secular media as well as within gay-affirmative Catholic “ministries.” Whatever the truth of this particular situation or the statements made, it’s already too late. There is a famous Jewish folktale about words, and how they can wound and cause great damage. These words are released into the atmosphere like feathers shaken from a torn pillow. After they have been cast into the wind – afterwards, try to go and gather them up again.
Pope Sandusky
How do you impeach a pope? This one needs to be.
These psychotic liars piss me off.
Yup! Wouldn’t surprise me if he’s providing cover for priests who like to get on their knees between the “hims”.
James Martin is not a trustworthy source. He is very messed up and in need of prayers.
“Since most gay people experience their homosexual orientation as a part of creation, if they accept this Church teaching, they must see God as sadistically creating them with an intrinsic orientation to evil. Most gays would prefer to see the Church teaching as wrong, rather than believe God is sadistic.”
This is about the sloppiest piece of logic I’ve ever heard of.
Every kind of sinful behavior is innate. Where was this John J. McNeill doing while the rest of us were understanding the simplest precepts of Christianity?
Sex and love are two different things. But there are those who refuse to believe that, because they’ve twisted the meaning of both to suit their own agendas.
I picked up my bag, I went looking for a place to hide
When I saw Jorge and the Devil walking side by side
This is the young man who pushed open this whole Chile disgrace. He exposed Karadima and helped two other boys who were abused. No doubt the assaults upon him by a trusted adult awoke confusion, deep questions and conflicts about his sexuality. Humiliating memories and hurt. And here is a clear cry for help... turned into a publicity stunt! Why would he even ask the pope such a question unless he yearned to hear, “You can overcome it. We will find you help.”
“Since most gay people experience their homosexual orientation as a part of creation”
What kind of nonsensical tripe is that? The delusions of disordered minds do not define reality.
“if they accept this Church teaching”
What Church teaching? That God makes some people homosexual? AFAIK, that is no part of any Christian theology.
“they must see God as sadistically creating them with an intrinsic orientation to evil.”
Satan is responsible for sodomy and same-sex attraction disorder. Why “must” they blame God for human cooperation with Satanic evil?
Jesuits once were considered the scholars of the Church. Well this Jesuit skipped more than a few chapters.
God doesn’t make crap but he does make test.
God test all of us in different ways. If we survive the test we are stronger for it and can grow closer to God.
Homosexuality is a test as is all temptation to sexual sin. You either overcome the temptation and pass the test or you yield to the temptation and fail. The price of failure is high; damnation.
Even if they really were born homosexually inclined, God had given us all His instructions for our behavior. Either do it His way or not. You have freewill. But stop trying to bullsheet around Holy Writ.
Is there a recording of Pope Francis talking to him? Where’s the record or article of that person saying the Pope said that? It wasn’t even mentioned in the article, except maybe one line.
Personally, I don’t believe the Pope said that. He may have said G-d loves you already, but did he add, “except your behavior.”
Alcoholics believe they were born alcoholic, but G-d helps them overcome it. Maybe we should just accept alcoholics as is, and show some tolerance.
418 As a result of original sin, human nature is weakened in its powers, subject to ignorance, suffering and the domination of death, and inclined to sin (this inclination is called "concupiscence").Fr. Martin, of course, knows this even if he choses to ignore it.
The problem with this reasoning is that just because I am heterosexual doesn’t make some grown woman molesting me as a kid okay.
Yes, we were all created by God, but God did not make us sinners. We chose sinfullness or holiness.
Yes God loves us in spite of our sins, but our sins cause us problems and turn us away from God.
May we return the love to God and Keep His commandments.
So one is born gay according to the pope. No more “objective disorder”?
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