This thread has been locked, it will not receive new replies.
|
Locked on 04/27/2018 6:02:15 PM PDT by Religion Moderator, reason:
Childish bickering between two posters
|
Skip to comments.
Salvation and Church
OSV.com ^
| 03-14-18
| Msgr. Charles Pope
Posted on 04/21/2018 9:30:28 AM PDT by Salvation
Salvation and Church The teaching of no salvation outside the Church is important and one that must rightly be understood
Msgr. Charles Pope
3/14/2018
Question: I hear the Catholic Church teaches there is no salvation outside the Church. This would seem to condemn most to hell. Or am I missing something? — Name, location withheld
Answer: It is in fact a doctrine of the Church often repeated by the Fathers of the Church and taught formally. However, it must be understood properly.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church has this to say by way of explanation:
“‘Outside the Church there is no Salvation.’ ... Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body: Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church ... is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence, they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it. This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church” (CCC, Nos. 846-847).
This much is sure: Whoever is in heaven was saved by Jesus Christ in and through his Body the Church. But, as we know, there are many barriers to people fully understanding that the Church is the sole and necessary means for salvation, and thus, simply being outside the Church usually does not alone bring condemnation.
God can and, it would seem, does draw others unto himself in ways not always known to us. All of this can console us and bring an understanding that the teaching “outside the Church there is no salvation” is not understood absolutely.
But this consolation must not be the source of letting our missionary zeal wane. While it is possible to be saved beyond the Church, sacraments and explicit faith in Christ, it is much more difficult. Consider the following teaching from the Second Vatican Council:
“Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience. Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life. ... But often men, deceived by the Evil One, have become vain in their reasonings and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, serving the creature rather than the Creator (cf. Rom 1:21, 25). Or some there are who, living and dying in this world without God, are exposed to final despair. Wherefore to promote the glory of God and procure the salvation of all of these, and mindful of the command of the Lord, ‘Preach the Gospel to every creature’ (Mk 16:16), the Church fosters the missions with care and attention” (Lumen Gentium, No. 16).
And therefore, we see that people often are deceived or let themselves be deceived. So, the fact that people can be saved apart from the Church is not a blank check or presumption that they likely will be saved. It must always be our earnest work to evangelize, for many “prefer the darkness” (see Jn 3:19).
TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; History; Theology
KEYWORDS: catholic; salvation; tickytackytrolls
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 81-100, 101-120, 121-140 ... 681-686 next last
To: Salvation; All
Intresting article and thread from a few years ago.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/3255317/posts?page=55
Let us work out our salvation with fear and trembling.
Prayers for all those honestly discerning the way and that our Lord and Savior will draw near to each of us personally as we wander through this valley of tears.
101
posted on
04/21/2018 5:46:02 PM PDT
by
infool7
(Observe, Orient, Pray, Decide, Act!(it's an OOPDA loop))
To: aMorePerfectUnion
It's a long time taught and believed doctrine of the Catholic church at that.
And it is wrong.
Acts 4:12 And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.
Salvation is in a person, that is Jesus, not a religion or religious organization.
Not by sacraments or works, or membership, or any other method.
102
posted on
04/21/2018 6:09:34 PM PDT
by
metmom
( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith..)
To: nobamanomore; aMorePerfectUnion
Internet Troll A person whose sole purpose in life is to seek out people to argue with on the internet over extremely trivial issues. Such arguments can happen on blogs,Then the people who post these threads need to stop doing it.
And that may be so, but salvation is not a trivial issue. Eternity is at stake.
103
posted on
04/21/2018 6:12:14 PM PDT
by
metmom
( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith..)
To: Salvation; Bob434
However, the Catholic Church believes that the Good Thief exhibited a Baptism of Desire as well as a Baptism of Blood. Whatever happened to *one Lord, one faith, ONE baptism*?
Now the Catholic church has invented many more not even alluded to in Scripture.
104
posted on
04/21/2018 6:14:45 PM PDT
by
metmom
( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith..)
To: Salvation
The words of Jesus Christ......
Matthew 26:29 I tell you I will not drink again of this fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new with you in my Fathers kingdom.
Mark 14:25 Truly, I say to you, I will not drink again of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God.
Luke 22:18 For I tell you that from now on I will not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.
John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
John 3:3-8 Jesus answered him,Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus said to him, How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born? Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, You must be born again. The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.
John 3:14-18 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
John 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.
John 11:25-26 Jesus said to her, I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?
105
posted on
04/21/2018 6:16:15 PM PDT
by
metmom
( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith..)
To: Steelfish; aMorePerfectUnion
Before the Bible there was the Church. Which proves nothing.
Because the SCRIPTURE that the Bible is comprised of pre-existed the Roman church.
106
posted on
04/21/2018 6:20:56 PM PDT
by
metmom
( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith..)
To: infool7
From the article:
And so it follows from this that Our Good God has not created one single human being damned. Every one of us and scientists today speculate that there have been roughly 110 billion human beings ever and every person who ever will be, has been knit together, atom by atom, cell by cell, personally by God who provided and provides a means and path and grace sufficient for every one of us to make it to heaven. Including the eighth consecutive child delivered by c-section. Many, many did not and will not make it, but that is our own fault.
Square the above away with this from John.
16For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
18He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:16-18 NASB
To: nobamanomore; aMorePerfectUnion
Im sick of the same three internet anti catholic trolls Then tell THEM to stop posting flame bait threads.
Why tell us?
108
posted on
04/21/2018 6:22:23 PM PDT
by
metmom
( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith..)
To: metmom
Then the people who post these threads need to stop doing it. And that may be so, but salvation is not a trivial issue. Eternity is at stake. That is precisely why Christians post on these threads....eternity is at stake.
To: nobamanomore; aMorePerfectUnion
Im tire of trolls. Then ignore them.
Which does raise the question.
If you are tired of them, why are you so obsessed with them?
110
posted on
04/21/2018 6:25:11 PM PDT
by
metmom
( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith..)
To: SkyDancer
Isnt the church the people and not a building? Exactly.
Scripture tells us this.....
Acts 17:24-25 The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by man, nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all mankind life and breath and everything.
111
posted on
04/21/2018 6:30:15 PM PDT
by
metmom
( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith..)
To: nobamanomore; ealgeone
Hey, ealgeone, You’ve been bad mouthed here on this post by this FReeper and he didn’t even have the integrity to courtesy ping you.
112
posted on
04/21/2018 6:32:09 PM PDT
by
metmom
( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith..)
To: ealgeone; Salvation
Just as the Old Testament had bloody sacrifices of animals as an offering to God, Jesus gave us the New Covenant and the Eucharist and the unbloody sacrifice of the Mass that we offer to God everyday in most countries.
It is from the teachings of Jesus and from the traditions that were established by Jesus and the Apostles before the New Testament was written.
Do you remember the two travelers to Damascus that welcomed Jesus to their home and finally recognized Jesus in the breaking of the bread?
Sorry that you don’t believe that Jesus Christ is present - Body, Blood and Divinity - at Mass in the consecration of the Bread and Wine. I do hope that the Holy Spirit will eventually enlighten you as was done for St Paul in his trip to Damascus.
There is a good movie out about Paul the Apostle.
113
posted on
04/21/2018 6:35:42 PM PDT
by
ADSUM
To: metmom; nobamanomore
Hey, ealgeone, Youve been bad mouthed here on this post by this FReeper and he didnt even have the integrity to courtesy ping you.Yeah....I'm very familiar with potty mouth nobamanomore.
Surprised he hasn't resorted to his/her usual profanity laced post.
The attempt of a small mind trying to express itself.
To: ealgeone
To: ADSUM; ealgeone
Just as the Old Testament had bloody sacrifices of animals as an offering to God, Jesus gave us the New Covenant and the Eucharist and the unbloody sacrifice of the Mass that we offer to God everyday in most countries. An unbloody sacrifice is a worthless one, just meaningless killing.
Hebrews 9:22 Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.
And the sacrifice of Jesus on the CROSS, was not unbloody.
So hat Catholicism calls the sacrifice of the mass in which Jesus is being continually sacrificed, is not even the same one.
God didn't give Jesus to mankind to offer as a sacrifice for our sins.
Jesus Himself offered HIMSELF up, once for all, and died a bloody death on the cross, not an altar.
So an unbloody sacrifice on an altar is NOT the sacrifice of Jesus.
116
posted on
04/21/2018 6:42:32 PM PDT
by
metmom
( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith..)
To: armydoc; Salvation
That is what Jesus said - several times.
Jesus told the Apostles and their successors to go out Preach and Baptize. That is what they have done. The Catholic Church still preaches the good word and baptizes those that wish to belong to the church that Jesus founded.
117
posted on
04/21/2018 6:45:23 PM PDT
by
ADSUM
Comment #118 Removed by Moderator
To: ADSUM
Just as the Old Testament had bloody sacrifices of animals as an offering to God, Jesus gave us the New Covenant and the Eucharist and the unbloody sacrifice of the Mass that we offer to God everyday in most countries.And in those OT sacrifices, which had to be repeated over and over and over again, the blood was always poured out....never consumed.
Jesus is not brought down from Heaven to be placed upon the altar again and again and again as the eternal victim as espoused by John O'Brien, A Roman Catholic priest.
This would stand in contradiction of Hebrews:
23Therefore it was necessary for the copies of the things in the heavens to be cleansed with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
24For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us;
25nor was it that He would offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the holy place year by year with blood that is not his own.
26Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
27And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment,
28so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.
Hebrews 10:23-28 NASB
Do you remember the two travelers to Damascus that welcomed Jesus to their home and finally recognized Jesus in the breaking of the bread?
You mean Emmaus?
You are reading something into the text that isn't there much as you want it to be.
Sorry that you dont believe that Jesus Christ is present - Body, Blood and Divinity - at Mass in the consecration of the Bread and Wine. I do hope that the Holy Spirit will eventually enlighten you as was done for St Paul in his trip to Damascus.
Sorry you don't understand John 6 in relation to the rest of John and the NT.
You do realize Jesus is always with us through the Holy Spirit....right?
To: nobamanomore
Truth hurts you doesn’t it?
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 81-100, 101-120, 121-140 ... 681-686 next last
Disclaimer:
Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual
posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its
management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the
exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson