Thanks Roman_War_Criminal.
Posted on 03/12/2018 4:16:23 PM PDT by Roman_War_Criminal
I use the(Life Application Study) NIV Bible, and the Biblical Scholars/Theologians Commentary at Hebrews 8:4 and 8:5 does not agree with your comments. I am NOT a Biblical Scholar/Theologian, so therefore I cannot argue about Scripture.
If you wish to know what they said it is best to read it for yourself, if you do not have NIV/ a Christian bookstore will have one to look NIV Commentary under those scriptures, if you are interested.
I will pray and ask God to make sure I understand his comments on the subject, and that may take some time. I do daily reading/study of the Word of God/Prayer. Thanks for the reference/comments. This will be an interesting study.
Thanks Roman_War_Criminal.
I don't know this lecturer, Philip, but I have no real argument with him. It is like this: he says 167 BCE and I say 'about 170'. The thing is, we do not know exactly when 'BC' began, although many say *4 BC*... Well, you get the idea. You are right when you say your reasons are not far from fact; that is why I said you are incorrect, not 'wrong'. It is just that there is about a 400 year gap yawning in there.
Maybe tomorrow I will return to this and burn up a bunch of bandwidth telling you who I think the Essenes really were and why they were copying all those books of the Tanach - reasons that would confirm that I am no expert either... sigh The Teacher of Righteousness predicted another Teacher of Righteousness to come, and I wonder if that prophecy was fulfilled in John the Baptist - 'who must come before'. It gets a bit complicated - but exciting. The lecturer mentions a scroll fragment that seems to mimic the Gospel of Mark (?), But parallels between spiritual concepts in the scrolls and the Gospel of John are more compelling... But, as I say, it can get complicated. As the lecturer says, the Essenes were preparing the way for Messiah - but they 'missed' Messiah when He came. Quite possibly everyone has missed 'why' they got it wrong. . . . G'nite.
The Ark is not mentioned (Ezra, etc) when the Second Temple was rebuilt, and its absence from the Second Temple is noted in the Babylonian Talmud Yoma. This would agree with Jeremiah 3, which was written in the days of Josiah before the destruction of the First Temple.
I am not aware of any ancient Christian claims that the Ark was in the Second Temple.
When you become a resident of Nevada it is spelled out in the Welcome Wagon literature.
Yes, and where it is, it should be left alone . Biblical accounts of its power should be a warning
The scroll was a tool. Nothing more. It was never an obsession, but a passion. My training is as a Geologist and I was the project Geologist on four excavations. One is lucky to have a passion for anything. Some have passions for making money. Some for sports. All in all, a person should find a passion in life and not just coast along. As far as objects of obsessions, I don’t actually believe that anyone will find the objects mentioned in the Copper Scroll. I believe that if you read the Bible, you will conclude that G-d hid the Ark of the Covenant and it will not be found. It is not mentioned in the Scroll at all, but it does mention the “objects”. Mainly, the hunt for the religious objects were magnified by the movie “Raiders of the Lost Ark” and is a fantasy. We had hundreds of volunteers come and go through the years with the same idea, but had the adventure of a lifetime by coming and exploring in Israel. I strongly recommend it to anyone.
No doubt it is complicated. Not a lot of historical evidence.
I don’t know much about the lecturer. I am not saying he’s wrong on anything but I do believe he could have presented some things better. He also states that he was a bit under the weather at the time of his presentation so I’ll cut him some slack. He knows a lot more about that time frame than I do.
As to Israel, I never made it so I studied it variously; my son has been to Israel a few times [he is also a Christian Zionist - somewhat by my lead] and I was able to alert him to some things to watch for - like the cornerstone Herod set when he built the 'Temple Mount'; one of those ancient enigmas difficult to explain, but while Herod the Great was a bit of a monster in human terms, he was an incredible builder. His structure at Machpelah is still standing, not a claim many figures in history can match.
As to the Ark of the Covenant - I agree with your opinion in general - until it is proven incorrect. ;^) It is in G*d's Hands. Likewise the objects mentioned in the Copper Scroll... the scroll may have been a 'lure' or a 'trap' or whatever. If anything comes of it, it will likely be similar to the scrolls in general: pure happenstance. As to Isl@m: Jesus said that the devil comes to steal, kill and destroy... 'nuff said. There is much deception concerning the history of the Jews and the Palestinians who never existed as such, to likely unfortunate conclusion.
I believe the story of Joseph as 'vizier' to Pharoah -- and his brothers travails in dealing with him [a Midrash clarifies their repentance for their actions against Joseph - while he weeps hidden behind a curtain... then to reveal himself to their joy] -- the story of Joseph is the story of Israel in the Great Tribulation and their coming to see their error and the truth of it all. As Zechariah puts it, all the world will come up to Jerusalem to worship the LORD.
Everyone knows it is on Oak Island. They just didn’t dig it up yet.
A quick search of 'Depths of Pentecost' yields - http://www.depthsofpentecost.com/index.html/. There is found an article by Philip Cottraux - Brother Philip is an assistant teacher at his church in China Grove, North Carolina. I agree his presentation lacks academic authority, which can be a good thing or a bad thing, depending. Given the somewhat limited society of Scroll scholars, it is obvious that he is a teacher of the less informed...
Still, as I said before, I do not wish to take issue with his presentation in general. Given the controversies arising surrounding the scrolls - and historical Israel in general - he is probably just being cautiously conservative. The emergence of academic 'Minimalists' - who pick at all sorts of historical details about Israel - has thrown the whole subject into disarray.
LOL! That show has really veered off the rails. Their whole presentation about the Templars stretches credulity, and their experts - like Zena Halpern and what's-her-name red-head - are becoming a comedy of errors. I wrote Zena Halpern and asked for her provenance concerning her 'Templar map of Oak Island' dated to the 14th century... no response, of course. sigh
For a History Channel show, they seem to lack real discernment!
It is turning into another Capones vault. They are planning a new hunt already. The hunt for making money on TV finding nothing.
funny you should mention: “the cornerstone Herod set when he built the ‘Temple Mount’”; I had my hands all over it back in 2014. The Israelis have been excavating all under the Temple Mount area as part of the “City of David” Excavation. You can google it to get the info. It is awesome to stand on the very point that the entire Temple Mount rests on. In fact, I have walked the entire length of the Western Wall underground - all the way from the City of David to the exit at the Kotel Katan in the Arab Market, near the Damascus Gate. The Israelis are starting to allow visitors to most of it and it is well worth the tour if you ever visit Jerusalem. BTW, I have seen the “religious based” Excavations come and go. I am somewhat leery of them. I worked with Vendyl Jones and was a good friend for a lot of years. His financing was from Christian Zionists, and there is nothing wrong with that. However, most of the volunteers came with the idea that they were ushering in the Messiah and were on a mission. If that is why they came, they were disappointed. Unfortunately, I have run across a few Charlatans who use the allure of finding “Temple Treasure” to get funding for themselves. I loved one of Vendyl’s responses when people asked him about “when will Jesus Return?” His response was always I don’t wait for Messiah to come, I work for Messiah to come. He suggested that they not look up, but just keep working.
When my son went to Israel he went to work in the settlements... not to evangelize, just to work... That is the proper way IMHO. The locals say they 'can see Messiah' in folk like him.
Yes, they have excavated all the way. The part where the Cornerstone is exposed is not open yet to the public. I hope to be there when they do open it. They have found some amazing things, like a small amphitheater, a few more rich folk palaces, and many other things that they have not announced yet (I wish I could tell you.) The tunnel that I was in goes from the entry to the City of David, which is on the South Side of the street that enters through the Dung Gate (it is about 100’ below ground. It travels under the Archaelogical Park that is just south of the Temple Mount and the Cornerstone is about 90’ below the surface excavation where the top cornerstone was heaved off by the Romans in 70 CE. If you do go, it might be open now - I was there 4 years ago. They also found caches of gold (one place was about 350 pieces), which were no doubt placed there by “preppers” of the day. If you would like any other info, private message me.
I know some believe v. 19 refers to the same Ark the Hebrews carried through the wilderness and placed in the Holy of Holies. I disagree. I believe the physical ark was patterned after the one in glory, and that’s the one in view here. I can’t prove they are wrong, and they can’t prove they are right. Each side is speculating.
Based on my study, I just happen to believe they make a weak case. If we read Hebrews 9:20-23 carefully, it’s telling us that those earthly things made with human hands were but patterns of the things of heaven. Everything about the temple and all of the accoutrements of Hebrew worship were types pointing to something much better. Ultimately it all pointed to the person or work of Christ. It’s all about Him.
God bless, Ambrosia
Hebrews 9
20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
Thanks, I will study those scriptures you posted in the morning, when my mind is fresh. I did read the scriptures and prayed about ones I wrote to you about...8:4 and 8:5.. Goodnight. Blessings.
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