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To: ealgeone

Just for you:

1. Mary is revealed to be “full of grace” in Luke 1:28.
2. Mary is revealed to be the fulfillment of the prophetic “Daughter of Zion” of Zech. 2:10; Zeph. 3:14-16; Isaiah 12:1-6, etc.
3. Mary is revealed to be “the beginning of the new creation” in fufillment of the prophecy of Jer. 31:22.
4. Mary is revealed to possess a “blessed state” parallel with Christ’s in Luke 1:42.
5. Mary is not just called “blessed” among women, but “more blessed than all women” (including Eve) in Luke 1:42.

6. Mary is revealed to be the spotless “Ark of the Covenant” in Luke 1.
7. Mary is revealed to be the “New Eve” in Luke 1:37-38; John 2:4; 19:26-27; Rev. 12, and elsewhere.
8. Mary is revealed to be free from the pangs of labor in fulfillment of Isaiah 66:7-8.


37 posted on 02/02/2018 6:37:44 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation
Once again I will provide The Catholic Encyclopedia Online which bills itself as "the most comprehensive resource on Catholic teaching, history, and information ever gathered in all of human history" regarding Scripture and the Immaculate Conception:

No direct or categorical and stringent proof of the dogma can be brought forward from Scripture.

Yet Roman Catholicism plows ahead and attempts to show proof from Scripture.

I will now address your claims from the New Testament regarding what is said about this issue.

1. Mary is revealed to be “full of grace” in Luke 1:28.

Another bad translation leading to bad theology. The proper translation is: Greetings, you favored with grace.

4. Mary is revealed to possess a “blessed state” parallel with Christ’s in Luke 1:42.

And we see the Roman Catholic elevating Mary to the status of Jesus....though the text doesn't indicate that.

And she cried out with a loud voice and said, "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! Luke 1:42 NASB

"Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. Matthew 25:34 NASB

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, Eph 1:3 NASB

Blessed is a verb with the meaning of 2127 /eulogéō ("confer what is beneficial") is used of God blessing people (Lk 1:28; Eph 1:3; Heb 6:14, etc.) – and His people blessing Him (Lk 1:64, 2:28, 24:53; 1 Cor 14:16; Js 3:9).http://biblehub.com/greek/2127.htm

5. Mary is not just called “blessed” among women, but “more blessed than all women” (including Eve) in Luke 1:42.

And she cried out with a loud voice and said, "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! Luke 1:42 NASB. The text does not say more blessed than all women.

And she cried out with a loud voice, and said: Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. Luke 1:42 Douay-Rheims

Mary understood what was happening:

48“For He has had regard for the humble state of His bondslave; For behold, from this time on all generations will count me blessed. Luke 1:48 NASB

6. Mary is revealed to be the spotless “Ark of the Covenant” in Luke 1.

No where in the passage is that indicated.

Indeed, the opposite is observed by Mary herself.....she recognized her sinful state and need of a Savior. 47And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior.

Luke would be contradicting all that Paul wrote in Romans and elsewhere regarding the sinful nature of mankind. As Luke knew Paul we do not see the good doctor doing so. Why? Because Luke understood, as Paul did, we are all sinners.

None of the NT writers ever carve out an exception for Mary being sinless. None.

7. Mary is revealed to be the “New Eve” in Luke 1:37-38; John 2:4; 19:26-27; Rev. 12, and elsewhere.

37“For nothing will be impossible with God.” 38And Mary said, “Behold, the bondslave of the Lord; may it be done to me according to your word.” And the angel departed from her. Luke 1:37-18 NASB

4And Jesus said to her, “Woman, what does that have to do with us? My hour has not yet come.” John 2:4 NASB

In none of these passages is there any indication of Mary being called the "New Eve".

In all of the texts you've cited none say what the Roman Catholic claims. Except, if you practice eisegesis...that is reading something into the text that isn't there to support a belief.

Now, concerning the claim that Revelation 12 supports Mary and the Immaculate Conception.

1A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars; 2and she was with child; and she cried out, being in labor and in pain to give birth. Rev 12:1-2 NASB

If the Roman Catholic is citing Revelation 12:1 as referring to Mary then they have to allow 12:2 as being Mary as well....unless somehow the subject of the passage changes mid-sentence.

Rev 12:2 contradicts the claim of Isaiah 66:7-8 of Mary being free from the pangs of labor....allowing for discussion the passage is about Mary to begin with.

This carries us back to Genesis 3:15 which the Roman Catholic claims to be about Mary as well.

15And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel.” Gen 3:15 NASB

It should be noted though for the reader of the thread that only the Douay Rheims renders the text to read as "she shall crush thy head". And as previously noted by the Catholic Encyclopedia Online, and ignored for some reason, "the translation "she" of the Vulgate is interpretative; it originated after the fourth century, and cannot be defended critically."

This carries us to Genesis 3:16 which explains the punishment upon the woman, and all subsequent women, that they will have pain in childbirth.

16To the woman He said, “I will greatly multiply Your pain in childbirth, In pain you will bring forth children; Yet your desire will be for your husband, And he will rule over you.” Genesis 3:16 NASB.

No exception to this punishment has been noted in Scripture.

No exception for being sinless for any created being has been noted in Scripture. Not. One.

The only person Scripture notes as being sinless is Christ Jesus, the Son of the Living God. He is the only One.

38 posted on 02/02/2018 8:51:47 PM PST by ealgeone
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