Posted on 12/12/2017 5:34:21 PM PST by marshmallow
This is certainly surprising!
During a recent Friday night service, a pastor at New Life Church, an evangelical Protestant megachurch in Colorado Springs, CO, reportedly led the congregation in something you wouldn’t normally expect: the Sign of the Cross and a prayer of a consecration to the Sacred Heart of Jesus.
Redditer /u/MarvelDCgoodwithme, who is Catholic, explained on the /r/Catholicism subreddit that his Protestant mother attends the church and thought the prayer sounded Catholic. So she took pictures of a few of the slides with the prayer, which you can see at the bottom of this article.
And sure enough, it’s a prayer for consecration to the Sacred Heart of Jesus composed by Pope Leo XIII in 1899! The slides also have a picture of the statue of St. Peter in St. Peter’s Square at the Vatican.
“She said it happened after the sermon,” the redditer explained in a private message, “the pastor presented the slides and asked the congregation to read the prayer and if they agreed with it to pray it with him. The pastor also closed his prayers with the sign of the cross.”
We’ve reached out to New Life Church to learn more about their thinking in using the prayer but haven’t yet received a response.
New Life Church was founded in 1984 and has about 10,000 members. It was in the news in the early 2000s when its founding pastor Ted Haggard admitted to using drugs and regularly visiting a male escort. He was also later accused of making unwanted sexual advances on a young man in his 20s at the church. After Haggard was dismissed from his position, the church appointed a new pastor Brady Boyd who has since greatly expand the church’s reach.
(Excerpt) Read more at churchpop.com ...
Poor thing, you wrote, “Please post where I said those exact words, otherwise admit that you are mind reading and ask the mod to delete your erroneous post. Of course you said what was posed, you jus5t didn’t phrase it that exact way. You assert that you left Catholicism, then began reading the Bible —implying reading without a Priest interpreting it for you— and ‘discovered’ catholiciism to be very biblical.
Good point.
We are saved by grace thru faith, while the faith that saves is not alone, any more than a living viable fruit tree remains without fruit. But the fruit does not make such a fruit tree, yet as the two go together, the fruit justifies one as being what it is said to be, like as a statement that one is a prophet is fulfilled by such making a prophecy.
As as faith and obedience (by the Spirit) go together, salvation can both be promised to those who believe as well as to those who obey (which means they believe). This must be dealt with because we see it in Scripture.
Catholics deny that faith alone is sufficient to salvation, which is correct if referring to faith as a sterile barren faith being sufficient, that does not effect the obedience of faith, versus effectual faith, and which living fruitful faith is that which sole fide refers to.
For while it is indisputable that God purifies the heart by faith, (Acts 15:7-9) so that "through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins," (Acts 10:43) and that it is faith that is counted for righteousness, with God justifying the unGodly thereby, (Romans 4:5,6) yet the only kind of faith that is salvific is not mere intellectual assent to correct doctrine about the nature of God, (James 2:19-20) or (despite the CF basis for what qualifies one as Christian poster) even the entire Nicene Creed.
But saving faith is wholehearted (Acts 8:36,37) repentant faith in the risen Lord Jesus, the Divine Son of God to save one as a convicted damned and destitute sinner, (Psalm 34:18; Acts 2:34-37; 16:25-30) which thus results in a basic profound transformational charge in heart and life, (1 Thessalonians 2:13,14) being normally visibly expressed in baptism (Acts 2:38; 10:47, and which can be a "sinner's prayer"), and speaking of Christ in gratitude (Acts 10:46; 8:39) and following the Lord, (John 10:27,28) with confession and repentance when convicted of not doing so. ( 2 Corinthians 7:10,11)
For how can one truly believe in the Lord Jesus who loves righteousness and hates iniquity, (Hebrews 1:19) and not seek to live according to what pleases Him, relative to the light and grace one has received? But it is not a matter of adding works in order to merit the gift of eternal life, but of truly believing, thus the works will follow, and which faith as manifest in works God does recompense in grace, (Hebrews 10:35) though the only thing man can take credit for is his sins. (1 Chronicles 29:14; 1 Corinthians 4:7)
And it being the case that saving faith appropriates justification, and effects the obedience of faith, then promises of salvation are made to those who will believe, (Jn. 3:26; 5:24; Acts 10:43) as well as to those who obey, (Mark 16:16; Hebrews 5:9) for to do the latter testifies to doing the former. Likewise the Lord said in dealing with the palsied man, "Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk?" (Mark 2:9) for to do the former was to do the latter.
Those of a convicted broken (or pride) heart and contrite spirit needs only to believe on the Christ of the gospels to receive deliverance (Luke 8:50) and or forgiveness, (Acts 10:43) but since only effectual faith is salvific, promises of salvation are also made to those confess the Lord in word and in dead (Acts 2:38; Romans 10:9-10), and who do the will of God by the Spirit (Hebrews 10:36; Romans 8:13,14)
Thus the faith vs. works conflict should be much resolved.
Rome, with her doctrine in which one must be and is made actually good enough to enter Heaven, and her emphasis upon merit, and statements that believers truly merit eternal life, resulted in the emphasis upon what precisely appropriates justification, this being effectual faith, which baptism requires and expresses. But just as it is the nature of man to believe he will gain Heaven on the weight of the merit of his works (versus these justifying him as being a justified believer, and fit to be rewarded for obedience), so it is the nature of man to believe that faith can be merely intellectual, or believing in the promise of Christ to give eternal life to those who believe, apart from believing in the risen Lord Jesus and judge of all.
But despite some extreme hyperbole to the contrary, and faults, in clear statements brave Luther himself rejected the idea that a faith which did not effect characteristic obedience was salvific, stating,
faith is a living and an essential thing, which makes a new creature of man, changes his spirit...
Faith cannot help doing good works constantly...
if faith be true, it will break forth and bear fruit...
where there is no faith there also can be no good works; and conversely, that there is no faith.. where there are no good works. Therefore faith and good works should be so closely joined together that the essence of the entire Christian life consists in both.
if obedience and God’s commandments do not dominate you, then the work is not right, but damnable, surely the devil’s own doings, although it were even so great a work as to raise the dead...
if you continue in pride and lewdness, in greed and anger, and yet talk much of faith, St. Paul will come and say, 1 Cor. 4:20, look here my dear Sir, "the kingdom of God is not in word but in power." It requires life and action, and is not brought about by mere talk.
Works are necessary for salvation, but they do not cause salvation...
faith casts itself on God, and breaks forth and becomes certain through its works...
faith must be exercised, worked and polished; be purified by fire...
it is impossible for him who believes in Christ, as a just Savior, not to love and to do good. If, however, he does not do good nor love, it is sure that faith is not present...
where the works are absent, there is also no Christ...
Christ is the priest, all men are spiritual lepers because of unbelief; but when we come to faith in him he touches us With his hand, gives and lays upon us his merit and we become clean and whole without any merit on our part whatever. We are therefore to show our gratitude to him and acknowledge that we have not become pious by our own works, but through his grace, then our course will be right before God...
For if your heart is in the state of faith that you know your God has revealed himself to you to be so good and merciful, without thy merit, and purely gratuitously, while you were still his enemy and a child of eternal wrath; if you believe this, you cannot refrain from showing yourself so to your neighbor; and do all out of love to God and for the welfare of your neighbor.
References by God's grace.
What a second MayflowerMadam: weren't you on the Mayflower first?
Stop right there: Elsie does not need any more encouragement to start post... too late!
Then you can start by going through the missing distinctives of post 60 which you must have missed. The sophistry and extrapolation should be interesting as well as grievous.
And do not resort to making so-called church "fathers" or what your church says determinative of what Scripture is and says as so many other converts argue. But wait: it turns out that you have to.
You have a point.
Really!?!
Sounds like you got hooked on Sola Scriptura!
While the Bible shows Jesus only calling his 'mother' Woman.
Silly wabbit!
Don’t you know what ‘frequenting’ means?
This guy??
John 13:23 NIV
One of them, the disciple whom Jesus loved, was reclining next to him.
John 20:2
So she came running to Simon Peter and the other disciple, the one Jesus loved, and said, "They have taken the LORD out of the tomb, and we don't know where they have put him!"
Please post where I said those exact words, otherwise admit that you are mind reading and ask the mod to delete your erroneous post.
Nice try.
How about the UNclear ones?
Call no man father...
Don't worry; for they IGNORE what they taught anyway...
• Augustine, sermon:
"Christ, you see, built his Church not on a man but on Peter's confession. What is Peter's confession? 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.' There's the rock for you, there's the foundation, there's where the Church has been built, which the gates of the underworld cannot conquer. — John Rotelle, O.S.A., Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine , © 1993 New City Press, Sermons, Vol III/6, Sermon 229P.1, p. 327
Augustine, sermon:
Upon this rock, said the Lord, I will build my Church. Upon this confession, upon this that you said, 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God,' I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not conquer her (Mt. 16:18). — John Rotelle, Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City, 1993) Sermons, Volume III/7, Sermon 236A.3, p. 48.
• Augustine, sermon:
For petra (rock) is not derived from Peter, but Peter from petra; just as Christ is not called so from the Christian, but the Christian from Christ. For on this very account the Lord said, 'On this rock will I build my Church,' because Peter had said, 'Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.' On this rock, therefore, He said, which thou hast confessed, I will build my Church. For the Rock (Petra) was Christ; and on this foundation was Peter himself built. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Christ Jesus. The Church, therefore, which is founded in Christ received from Him the keys of the kingdom of heaven in the person of Peter, that is to say, the power of binding and loosing sins. For what the Church is essentially in Christ, such representatively is Peter in the rock (petra); and in this representation Christ is to be understood as the Rock, Peter as the Church. — Augustine Tractate CXXIV; Philip Schaff, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers: First Series, Volume VII Tractate CXXIV (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf107.iii.cxxv.html)
• Augustine, sermon:
And Peter, one speaking for the rest of them, one for all, said, You are the Christ, the Son of the living God (Mt 16:15-16)...And I tell you: you are Peter; because I am the rock, you are Rocky, Peter-I mean, rock doesn't come from Rocky, but Rocky from rock, just as Christ doesn't come from Christian, but Christian from Christ; and upon this rock I will build my Church (Mt 16:17-18); not upon Peter, or Rocky, which is what you are, but upon the rock which you have confessed. I will build my Church though; I will build you, because in this answer of yours you represent the Church. — John Rotelle, O.S.A. Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City Press, 1993), Sermons, Volume III/7, Sermon 270.2, p. 289
• Augustine, sermon:
Peter had already said to him, 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.' He had already heard, 'Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona, because flesh and blood did not reveal it to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of the underworld shall not conquer her' (Mt 16:16-18)...Christ himself was the rock, while Peter, Rocky, was only named from the rock. That's why the rock rose again, to make Peter solid and strong; because Peter would have perished, if the rock hadn't lived. — John Rotelle, Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City, 1993) Sermons, Volume III/7, Sermon 244.1, p. 95
• Augustine, sermon:
...because on this rock, he said, I will build my Church, and the gates of the underworld shall not overcome it (Mt. 16:18). Now the rock was Christ (1 Cor. 10:4). Was it Paul that was crucified for you? Hold on to these texts, love these texts, repeat them in a fraternal and peaceful manner. — John Rotelle, Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City Press, 1995), Sermons, Volume III/10, Sermon 358.5, p. 193
• Augustine, Psalm LXI:
Let us call to mind the Gospel: 'Upon this Rock I will build My Church.' Therefore She crieth from the ends of the earth, whom He hath willed to build upon a Rock. But in order that the Church might be builded upon the Rock, who was made the Rock? Hear Paul saying: 'But the Rock was Christ.' On Him therefore builded we have been. — Philip Schaff, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1956), Volume VIII, Saint Augustin, Exposition on the Book of Psalms, Psalm LXI.3, p. 249. (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf108.ii.LXI.html)
• Augustine, in “Retractions,”
In a passage in this book, I said about the Apostle Peter: 'On him as on a rock the Church was built.'...But I know that very frequently at a later time, I so explained what the Lord said: 'Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church,' that it be understood as built upon Him whom Peter confessed saying: 'Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God,' and so Peter, called after this rock, represented the person of the Church which is built upon this rock, and has received 'the keys of the kingdom of heaven.' For, 'Thou art Peter' and not 'Thou art the rock' was said to him. But 'the rock was Christ,' in confessing whom, as also the whole Church confesses, Simon was called Peter. But let the reader decide which of these two opinions is the more probable. — The Fathers of the Church (Washington D.C., Catholic University, 1968), Saint Augustine, The Retractations Chapter 20.1:.
“weren’t you on the Mayflower first?”
;)
I didn’t say those were your exact words.
Perhaps reading comprehension lessons are in order for you since you seem to misunderstand the use of *IOW*.
You gave no credit to anyone else for the conclusion you reached.
You used the personal pronoun of *I*.
Perhaps Christ didn't want to leave any evidence that He supported Mariolatry.
But He did tell John to behold his mother.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+19%3A25-29&version=NKJV
Interesting.
Don't you think it a little odd that these fasting rules have changed so much? What fifty-something years ago could be considered a mortal sin, isn't even ANY kind of sin now!
Waddya mean ONCE for all???!!! Didn't Jude know the faith can be changed whenever the Pope decides? ;o)
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